Help me!

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-27-2011, 10:10 AM

I am trying for a third/fourth time to learn XCM (mainly two handed cuts)
This time I am determiend to do it.
I can already do 5 faces of sybil, werm, nitroze cut. I can also do basic fundametals such as charlier, and the revolution cut.
Now I am confused on where to go from here.
What Should I learn next? Maybe there is a dvd I could buy to help me contiune in the right direction, I have the system and the triolgy currenty on both the cyts are really hard though. Maybe I could try and learn Mecka from the triliogy or tectonic verb.
SO yeah where should I go next/ what should I learn next.

MarkoViner · 08-27-2011, 10:26 AM

I'm not that of a card flourish, but I know for certain that you should buy Genesis, both volumes. I have number 1, and there he teaches all the basic moves. Volume 2, I guess is more advanced.

KGaborMagic · 08-27-2011, 12:13 PM

Yeah, Genesis is fine. Also search on a lot of youtube flourish tutorials, and try to experiment with every grip and movement and things like that (even if you can't do them at the moment or they look bad in your hands), because later, it will speed up your learning process when you will learn a cut that uses the same grip or movement.

la0o9 · 08-27-2011, 12:52 PM

i suggest looking at your trilogy disk again, it may be hard, but you'll be able to practice those things to bypass the time really well( srly, STILL having trouble with the jackson 5 cut, even after 9 months of doing it). And genesis v1 will enable you to be more efficient with your fingers.

Kelan · 08-27-2011, 03:25 PM

I agree. Some of the flourishes are easier than you think, like molecule 4, Eko, Akira.

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-28-2011, 02:27 AM

Hmm.. I am trying mecka at the moment becuase it resmebles sybil and uses the rev cut which i Need to learn how to do.
Now about Genesis doesnt that teach a lot of stuff if you want to be one of tose really versatile card mainuplators rather then just two handed cuts?

la0o9 · 08-28-2011, 02:37 AM

meh, genesis v1 will teach you to be as efficient with your hands as possible, both hands, and so does v2( your 2 hands will be able to do beautiful moves individually), if you want cool cuts, try and search for "Amonía card" on YT, that's part of the YT flourishers' inner circle( it's free BTW), and the inner circle is the best way to go( DnD are the only people who release pure flourish tutorials on DVDs, and there aren't that many of them). I also recommend thecuso.com

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-28-2011, 09:27 AM

I am more interested in learning smooth elegant moves like kinf of like Alejandro Portela rather than dan and dave. Anyone know any good cuts or good youtube channels for that sought of stuff.

I also really likw the Amonía card card thing its awesome.

Mark · 08-28-2011, 10:36 AM

The 'M-Production', 'nuff said.

(Plus that it includes techniques which you can use for other kinds of flourishes and tricks too.

)

la0o9 · 08-28-2011, 10:42 AM

well, the channels i frequent would be wwwtobiaslevincom( no srly, that's the channel name, not a website) and denkste144, also legendmichael and .thecuso are 2 channels with a lot of contact with the inner circle, so check those out.

BTW, Amonía is THE best taught flourish collection anywhere according to many, so you liking it means you've got taste. I'm still having trouble with Roman Cut since such a piece of art demands more than what i'm giving it.

as for individual cuts... i'm not sure... i mean, it's all about your taste, i mentioned the ones i like the most, but there are many many many channels with a lot of different cuts for anyone to try and learn, you need a bit of luck to come across ones you like tho...

KGaborMagic · 08-28-2011, 11:05 AM

I can do those smooth elegant cuts, but I don't like them. The spectators want to see fast flourishes from a flourisher, and if you perform those smooth ones, the reaction is a "Is that all?" or something like this...

Mark · 08-28-2011, 11:25 AM

I think it's just way nicer to look at smooth and elegant flourishes rather than rough ones. It's why I like Aviv M and Jordan Lapping much better than Dan and Dave and Brian Tudor. It aren't necessarily different flourishes, it are just different styles. It makes the most difficult things look easier, but still difficult and unfollowable enough for spectators.

I have to add that I think flourishes are more of a training kind of thing rather than that they are meant to perform. I have seen many people performing flourishes for laymen but the reactions were never that special, nowhere near reactions to good magic or music even. The only ones reacting good are other flourishers, at conventions and to videos.

la0o9 · 08-29-2011, 01:17 AM

well, unless it's something spontaneous and looks really really really hard to do, most flourishes won't impress the laymen that much( yeah, so you have fast hands that can do things that look impossible, so what?), so even if people do smooth, elegant cuts, they'll get the same reaction as a newbie pulling off a LePaul Spread.

@Mark: wow... didn't expect you to name people like Aviv M... i thought only flourishers admire him...

Kelan · 08-29-2011, 04:40 AM

I suggest the cardist.com also. They have a lot of free cuts/twirls

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-29-2011, 09:01 AM

Can you give me another link for that site Kelan?

The reason why I want to learn smoothness and beatuy over lighting spped is because I think it looks more impressive and you can see whats going on unlike lighting fast ones which you cant.

Mark · 08-29-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la0o9

@Mark: wow... didn't expect you to name people like Aviv M... i thought only flourishers admire him...

But... I am a flourisher now.

Kelan · 08-29-2011, 03:45 PM

Kieran, just put in "thecardist.net".

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-31-2011, 08:28 AM

SO mark will you be learning two handed cut sought of flourishes or flourish flourishes or... I think you get what I mean. ALos how have you come up with flourishes if you arent already a flrouisher in the first place? And plz dont become one of thos epoeple who become consumed by flourishes and become XCM's rather than magicians, there nothing wrong with that but I think your magic is amazing so I like to keep seeing more of it.

That link worked better Kelan thanks

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------

Hey la0o9, you cant learn the roman cut because its to hard? Well if you cant learn it I might aswell not try, well not until I am better anway

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------

Also I know have lots of material I can learn now how should I go foward. Should I just learn a cut, master that learn another master that learn anthor and so on?

KGaborMagic · 08-31-2011, 09:25 AM

Yeah Mark, stay at magic, because we can see that 6 years of JUST magic gave you some incredible skills

la0o9 · 08-31-2011, 09:49 AM

why shouldn't you attempt that cut? seriously, it's one of the most beautiful pieces of art there is so i HIGHLY recommend you take a shot at it, i'm not one of the geniuses who manage to move their hands like it's jelly so me not being able to do something shouldn't hinder you trying it...

and about how to proceed, i learn around 4-5 cuts that i find attractive at once, i try to be able to do it at least once from start to end to remember the movements and work on all of them simultaneously until i feel like they're good enough, after that, i take a break from flourishing for a bit so that my hands can rest and then i continue to learn 4-5 more after the break. that's how i proceed( it works for me, but it might not for you), but if you like, you can also try learning one at a time and continuously learn new ones.

08-27-2011, 10:10 AM	#1
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	Help me! I am trying for a third/fourth time to learn XCM (mainly two handed cuts) This time I am determiend to do it. I can already do 5 faces of sybil, werm, nitroze cut. I can also do basic fundametals such as charlier, and the revolution cut. Now I am confused on where to go from here. What Should I learn next? Maybe there is a dvd I could buy to help me contiune in the right direction, I have the system and the triolgy currenty on both the cyts are really hard though. Maybe I could try and learn Mecka from the triliogy or tectonic verb. SO yeah where should I go next/ what should I learn next.

08-27-2011, 12:52 PM	#4
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	i suggest looking at your trilogy disk again, it may be hard, but you'll be able to practice those things to bypass the time really well( srly, STILL having trouble with the jackson 5 cut, even after 9 months of doing it). And genesis v1 will enable you to be more efficient with your fingers. __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

08-28-2011, 02:37 AM	#7
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	meh, genesis v1 will teach you to be as efficient with your hands as possible, both hands, and so does v2( your 2 hands will be able to do beautiful moves individually), if you want cool cuts, try and search for "Amonía card" on YT, that's part of the YT flourishers' inner circle( it's free BTW), and the inner circle is the best way to go( DnD are the only people who release pure flourish tutorials on DVDs, and there aren't that many of them). I also recommend thecuso.com __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

08-28-2011, 10:42 AM	#10
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	well, the channels i frequent would be wwwtobiaslevincom( no srly, that's the channel name, not a website) and denkste144, also legendmichael and .thecuso are 2 channels with a lot of contact with the inner circle, so check those out. BTW, Amonía is THE best taught flourish collection anywhere according to many, so you liking it means you've got taste. I'm still having trouble with Roman Cut since such a piece of art demands more than what i'm giving it. as for individual cuts... i'm not sure... i mean, it's all about your taste, i mentioned the ones i like the most, but there are many many many channels with a lot of different cuts for anyone to try and learn, you need a bit of luck to come across ones you like tho... __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

08-29-2011, 01:17 AM	#13
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	well, unless it's something spontaneous and looks really really really hard to do, most flourishes won't impress the laymen that much( yeah, so you have fast hands that can do things that look impossible, so what?), so even if people do smooth, elegant cuts, they'll get the same reaction as a newbie pulling off a LePaul Spread. @Mark: wow... didn't expect you to name people like Aviv M... i thought only flourishers admire him... __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

08-27-2011, 10:26 AM	#2
MarkoViner Join Date: May 2011 Location: Serbia,Novi sad Posts: 78	I'm not that of a card flourish, but I know for certain that you should buy Genesis, both volumes. I have number 1, and there he teaches all the basic moves. Volume 2, I guess is more advanced.

08-27-2011, 12:13 PM	#3
KGaborMagic K. Gábor Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 229 Donor Score: 110	Yeah, Genesis is fine. Also search on a lot of youtube flourish tutorials, and try to experiment with every grip and movement and things like that (even if you can't do them at the moment or they look bad in your hands), because later, it will speed up your learning process when you will learn a cut that uses the same grip or movement.

08-27-2011, 03:25 PM	#5
Kelan kittydakat Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 142	I agree. Some of the flourishes are easier than you think, like molecule 4, Eko, Akira.

08-28-2011, 02:27 AM	#6
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	Hmm.. I am trying mecka at the moment becuase it resmebles sybil and uses the rev cut which i Need to learn how to do. Now about Genesis doesnt that teach a lot of stuff if you want to be one of tose really versatile card mainuplators rather then just two handed cuts?

08-28-2011, 09:27 AM	#8
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	I am more interested in learning smooth elegant moves like kinf of like Alejandro Portela rather than dan and dave. Anyone know any good cuts or good youtube channels for that sought of stuff. I also really likw the Amonía card card thing its awesome.

08-28-2011, 10:36 AM	#9
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	The 'M-Production', 'nuff said. (Plus that it includes techniques which you can use for other kinds of flourishes and tricks too. )

08-28-2011, 11:05 AM	#11
KGaborMagic K. Gábor Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 229 Donor Score: 110	I can do those smooth elegant cuts, but I don't like them. The spectators want to see fast flourishes from a flourisher, and if you perform those smooth ones, the reaction is a "Is that all?" or something like this...

08-28-2011, 11:25 AM	#12
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	I think it's just way nicer to look at smooth and elegant flourishes rather than rough ones. It's why I like Aviv M and Jordan Lapping much better than Dan and Dave and Brian Tudor. It aren't necessarily different flourishes, it are just different styles. It makes the most difficult things look easier, but still difficult and unfollowable enough for spectators. I have to add that I think flourishes are more of a training kind of thing rather than that they are meant to perform. I have seen many people performing flourishes for laymen but the reactions were never that special, nowhere near reactions to good magic or music even. The only ones reacting good are other flourishers, at conventions and to videos.

08-29-2011, 04:40 AM	#14
Kelan kittydakat Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 142	I suggest the cardist.com also. They have a lot of free cuts/twirls

08-29-2011, 09:01 AM	#15
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	Can you give me another link for that site Kelan? The reason why I want to learn smoothness and beatuy over lighting spped is because I think it looks more impressive and you can see whats going on unlike lighting fast ones which you cant.

08-29-2011, 03:45 PM	#17
Kelan kittydakat Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 142	Kieran, just put in "thecardist.net".

08-31-2011, 08:28 AM	#18
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	SO mark will you be learning two handed cut sought of flourishes or flourish flourishes or... I think you get what I mean. ALos how have you come up with flourishes if you arent already a flrouisher in the first place? And plz dont become one of thos epoeple who become consumed by flourishes and become XCM's rather than magicians, there nothing wrong with that but I think your magic is amazing so I like to keep seeing more of it. That link worked better Kelan thanks ---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ---------- Hey la0o9, you cant learn the roman cut because its to hard? Well if you cant learn it I might aswell not try, well not until I am better anway ---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ---------- Also I know have lots of material I can learn now how should I go foward. Should I just learn a cut, master that learn another master that learn anthor and so on?

08-31-2011, 09:25 AM	#19
KGaborMagic K. Gábor Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 229 Donor Score: 110	Yeah Mark, stay at magic, because we can see that 6 years of JUST magic gave you some incredible skills

08-31-2011, 09:49 AM	#20
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	why shouldn't you attempt that cut? seriously, it's one of the most beautiful pieces of art there is so i HIGHLY recommend you take a shot at it, i'm not one of the geniuses who manage to move their hands like it's jelly so me not being able to do something shouldn't hinder you trying it... and about how to proceed, i learn around 4-5 cuts that i find attractive at once, i try to be able to do it at least once from start to end to remember the movements and work on all of them simultaneously until i feel like they're good enough, after that, i take a break from flourishing for a bit so that my hands can rest and then i continue to learn 4-5 more after the break. that's how i proceed( it works for me, but it might not for you), but if you like, you can also try learning one at a time and continuously learn new ones. __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"