A new paradigm of magic and lying to Magicians

[OliveroG]

We must also consider the fact that the secret of the effect is not what makes it magic, the combination between the presentation, technique (This includes not only sleight of hand but audience management techniques, theatrical techniques, communication techniques and so on) and other factors is what creates that atmosphere where we don't really care about the effect, but to be amazed (Ascanio theory), consider for example Dani Daortiz, he uses the classical sleights in card magic (top change, palm, passes, classic controls, DL), and the BOLDEST solutions to known cardmagic problems, and he still fools the hell out of everyone, why? because he knows how to combine all the above in order to engage an audience into not caring about anything but the magic, even if they're magicians.

This particular scenario is repeated among magicians in the magic conventions, because in those very particular situations when we have the chance to see so much magic, we prefer to shut down the analytic mind in order to feel again what is to be a layman, this is the exact same feeling a layman have when he DECIDES (leaded by you) to accept magic and not to try to catch the method behind it.

That being said, i think that if everyone knew the secret behind everything, magic would still exist, but it will be limited only to the people who really took time and effort to explore not only the sleight of hand, but to actually study magic itself, and everything that goes with it. If we are able to shut the analytic mind of out audience, they'll feel magic no matter what.

[Wyattsb]

I suppose Criss Angel would be a better example for this, using camera tricks and lying to other magicians the whole time.

That makes sense, but I used you specifically because you don't use camera tricks and such, and we believe you, while Criss Angel does use them, and we don't believe him. I wanted an example of someone who did use these techniques, and we did believe them, so I went hypothetical.

On the subject of stooges, is there a difference between me flat out pre organising something for a sepctator to think of and how they will react when I 'read' their mind, and giving him a torn corner of a card to sneak into someone's pocket for a more powerful reveal when I 'tear' it off later. In both cases still only one person knows the secret, the experience isn't detracted for the rest of the audience any more in either situation.

---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by OliveroG

We must also consider the fact that the secret of the effect is not what makes it magic, the combination between the presentation, technique (This includes not only sleight of hand but audience management techniques, theatrical techniques, communication techniques and so on) and other factors is what creates that atmosphere where we don't really care about the effect, but to be amazed (Ascanio theory).

An excellent point, perhaps magicians would may even be purely rewarded not on the impossibility of the effect, but entirely on their performance skills, much more so than they are now, an interesting idea. I guess like what Mark was saying , the no technical skill stuff.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Wyattsb

On the subject of stooges, is there a difference between me flat out pre organising something for a sepctator to think of and how they will react when I 'read' their mind, and giving him a torn corner of a card to sneak into someone's pocket for a more powerful reveal when I 'tear' it off later. In both cases still only one person knows the secret, the experience isn't detracted for the rest of the audience any more in either situation.

Actually, using stooges to fool a bigger crowd with is fine (so not like Criss Angel having all spectators be stooges). However, if you "read" someone's mind, you will have to make it seem as if anyone could have been selected and it will usually help the act a lot to ask the selected person whether you know them or have met them before or not.

On top of that, they have to be good actors (proven by many, including Criss Angel and some hypnotists) as stooges rarely give a spot-on reaction, both timing-wise and reaction-wise, and therefore can easily destroy the effect. Then again, if the effect would not look nearly as magical or would be a whole lot riskier without any stooge at all, you might as well use them nonetheless.

Of course, using a stooge to sneak anything into someone's pocket always is more than fine.. and a lot safer if you consider the above factors.