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Old 11-07-2010, 02:51 PM   #1
Richard
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Warning Jonathan Kamm (kammagic) Exposed

For the past month, our inboxes and messengers have been seriously flooding over on this subject. A lot of you apparently wondered about our opinions on Jonathan Kamm and so we started doing research on this magician. To complete this, Jonathan himself sent us a PM about a week ago out of the blue. What a coincidence! Mark passed this message on to me because apparently he had been having some issues with him in the past and so I was able to make up my mind about Jonathan Kamm, his magic and his personality. I think I succeeded in the fairest way possible. To keep it clean, this article will only go over the facts as for all negativity.


MAGIC
Let's start off with his magic. He is a great magician and especially a brilliant performer. He has a great audience control and presentation which must have to do with the fact that he has been performing the art for over twenty years.

On the sidenote, his video comments would make you believe that he truly is one of the very best sleight of hand artists in the world and that he has mastered every single sleight he does. True, he is good and certainly handles cards well enough to fool laymen, but when comparing his sleight of hand to people who truly mastered the sleights he uses, there still is a big gap. Usually we would not make a deal out of that because he sure is talented and it all works fine in real life, but this seems to be an important thing regarding the subject.


ATTITUDE
Now this is where all trouble starts. Those who love Jonathan, love him for his magic. Those who hate Jonathan, hate him for his attitude.

Discussions and false assumptions
Jonathan always wants to have the final words in a discussion. This makes it impossible to discuss anything with him because he thinks he stands correct on everything he says including false assumptions he tends to make. This is something I noticed in the messages he and I sent back and forth because every reply I needed to correct him one way or the other. As soon as I corrected him, he would choose something different to discuss and to make false assumptions on.

An example:
Quote:
Quote:
Jonathan:
"..The Signed Force Impossible' and 'Your Turn & Force Impossible' are not live performances. They are simply Mark performing a trick for one person and that person looks and reacts like a friend or co worker. True live performances are done for strangers. Nothing is prepared or staged. The reactions are different. They are real, honest.
I: "..In your reply, you confused me by saying that our 'Your Turn & Force Impossible' and 'Signed Force Impossible' videos were not performed live. The fact that these spectators are no real strangers does not make their reactions less honest. A good example would be the videos by Magic Geek. You can clearly see whether their spectators react in an honest or staged way, or whether they are not impressed at all or know how the trick works. This also counts for every other live performance out there. You can tell both the reactions you and Mark got were honest.."
Criticism
Jonathan does not seem to take criticism very well. This is what I have heard from at least five of you and it also explains why his video comments usually are very positive. Apparently when he does not like a comment, any comment including criticism for that matter, he will ignore and remove it. We do that with comments that include magic exposure but that is morally wrong. Criticism is not quite like that because it allows you to improve and become better at what you do. There is always room for improvement, so by ignoring and removing those comments you block yourself from any improvements.

This does not just count for his magic, but also for his videos. For instance, he recently switched to a 20-second introduction and whoever would tell him that twenty seconds is too long for a two minute video would get a reply along the lines of "I doubt you don't have enough time" or even a full explanation on how professional his introduction is.

Feedback from magicians & quoting statistics
Someone else showed me a conversation in which the following sentences said by Jonathan grabbed my attention:
Quote:
Jonathan:
"I NEVER care what magicians think about my magic. Their view is tainted by their knowledge of magic. I only listen to my lay audiences. That is one of the secrets to being a great magician"
I can see what he is coming from by saying lay audiences should be the ones to listen to because I personally agree on that, but to ignore things other magicians say does not seem to be the correct thing to do at all. Magicians know how it works so they can also say what exactly is wrong with it, if there indeed is something wrong. Laymen would or should never be able to tell that.

Then again, does he really never care about what magicians think about his magic? Testimonials beg to differ. Also, on his poster he quoted "Most Viewed", "Highest Rated" and "5 stars". Those are statistic-related things which should rely on facts rather than on quotes, and he obviously is not quoting anyone. It are lies instead.

Marketing
In the end, it is all marketing. Unlike DarkSleightZ, Jonathan obviously took the commercial highway. He mentions the tutorials he is selling in every video he makes and he puts it in annotations whenever he does the sleights he teaches in those tutorials as well. I would consider this to be ruining the magic or even being actual exposure, but he probably realizes that most people watching his tutorials are magicians who know these basics already anyways.


CONCLUSION
So to answer the question "What do you think of Jonathan Kamm?" I will have to go with the facts: Jonathan Kamm is a very talented magic performer who makes himself look better than he actually is by removing all criticism and bad comments.


This article is in no way meant to hate on Jonathan Kamm. It is just to expose the truth and should function as a good lesson for every single one of us because there are a lot of people like this. But the most respected ones are those who allow both positive and negative feedback, and who are completely honest to themselves and to the rest of the world.

A special thanks goes out to everyone contacting us about Jonathan, and especially the people who helped making this article possible.
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:55 PM   #2
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Whoa man! This must be the very best first post someone ever made on any forum on the world wide web!!

Awesome job! And thank you for not having him bother me.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:32 PM   #3
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I really enjoyed reading this and I agree with you that Kammagic doesn't take criticism very well. There was a lot of things I didn't know about him before this post. Thank you for posting this!
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:44 AM   #4
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In reality, there are many people in this world who do not take criticism very well. The only reason Jonathan tries to make himself look far better than he actually does, is because it is all marketing, as Richard has stated. Jonathan himself has daily performances in his restaurant, with complete strangers. This may be the reason that he is bias towards the "Co-worker&Friend" performances. Also, in previous video comments that Jonathan himself has posted, he relies heavily on restaurant tips. If that is what he relies on, his selling of tutorials would still in your opinion, have bad morals in terms of magical philosophy, but what about his own morals in life? People need money to live.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:31 PM   #5
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The "friend or co worker" example was just one of the things I had to correct him on. As for this specific subject, Jonathan indeed seemed to be biased. But after over twenty years of experience, I personally think he should have known better and not make false assumptions making himself look like 'the good guy' and us like 'the bad ones'. After performing magic for many years I think he should be able to tell the difference between real and fake audience reactions.

As for the marketing, Jonathan his YouTube public consists of other magicians. Therefore, I do not think it is a bad thing that he sells and promotes those magic tutorials, but then there also is no reason for hiding all the bad and constructive commentary, and certainly not to behave like a know-all in private messages. Truly no person in the world can be correct on everything or should even think they could.

I just hope this thread could function as a good lesson. Youngsters may actually look up to Jonathan and copy his behavior because they think it is part of the business while it is not. Taking criticism and respecting feedback really is though.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:54 AM   #6
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There are people that do not like to be wrong, which are the debaters. Jonathan may prefer to try to be right publicly, and privately, mainly because of reputation. Even though he removes criticism and has "attitude," for what reason is he to be placed in the Magic Alert? He expresses his ego to others discreetly by removing comments and real criticism. Jonathan tries to prove himself right, even on false assumptions, because he is a debater, and does not want his points to be rebutted against him. Even after all this, he still IS a magician. Many magicians do in fact express attitude; he is just one of them. Before I end this post, please note that I am NOT attempting to start a pointless argument, but I am merely expressing myself, and my opinions.

**Edit**
How can youngsters attempt to follow his method of gaining fame if they do not know that he even does it? Removing comments, placing advertisements, so what? Youngsters like me for example, would only view his YouTube videos, as he displays his skill there; that is all we look for.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:44 AM   #7
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I fully agree with Richard. Whether it'd be Jonathan or anyone else, particularly authorities or self-appointed ones, such threads should be made to make clear what's right and wrong and why.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:06 PM   #8
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I personally believe there is a big difference between people who do not like to be wrong, and people who think they are always correct and who would never admit to be wrong because they truly believe that they are right. In the end, I do not know a single person who actually likes to be wrong.

Jonathan could be seen as just an example in this case. You are very correct saying that there are many magicians like that, although attitude is not necessarily something bad. But if it would be considered to be bad like in this case, we would make threads on those people too as soon as anyone asks or tells us about them and we finished doing our research on the persons in question. It just happened to be Jonathan this time.

As for the youngsters who try to get in Jonathan his footsteps, they will actually see what he is up to because a lot of it happens or at least starts off in public. They just will not think of it as anything bad, but they will be able to copy the tone of voice, the attitude towards the public, the mass advertising to amateurish tutorials they might make because they cannot keep up with Jonathan's skills, and in the end they are most likely to not end up anywhere even though they would be very potential magicians at first.

Of course the more potential magicians are like you, just watching for the skills instead of copycatting. Unfortunately, many kids do not know any better. But I would prefer having those youngsters behave properly rather than them being extremely ignorant and unintentionally ruining all of their chances.
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:55 PM   #9
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You are correct; there is a world of differences between being right, and being ignorant. Though he is on the Magic Alert list, Jonathan will continue to post, and advertise, mainly because that is how he works. It is up to the individual to make their own choice of being original, or following the method of someone else to gain fame. There is one thing that is true about magicians through the world: there are the ones that do it because it is their passion, and do not wish to gain fame, or reputation, and those who are very flashy, and use mass advertising with misconceiving titles. In the end, the only way to stop the spread is to speak our minds, and hope our words are heard.
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:05 PM   #10
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great post. great i could help

in his latest video he slips a lift many times so i ask him why and he said: The blue deck was brand new the red deck was well used. The differences in the cards were a factor. Concentrating on proper technique is why I finally hit it the third time.

is that superduperlame or what
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:40 AM   #11
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Hello this is Jonathan Kamm. If any of you would like to ask me any question feel free.

To address how I filter my comments on YouTube I use the following steps.


1. I listen to everyone (I don't ignore anyone)
2. I judge the advice first by itself. Is it good or bad advice? Using my 25 years experience usually this is quite clear.
3. If I'm on the fence or don't understand the advice I start looking at criteria.
4. Where did they get the info? Why do they think this is good advice? What do they know about the topic? I will ask a battery of questions if I don't understand the advice.
5. If the advice is something they really know about they will have no
problem answering my questions. If it's something they read or heard somewhere. They will have trouble answering my questions.
6. It may only take one answer to a question for me to realize this guy knows what he is talking about or one answer to know he doesn't.
7. I will ask questions until I have enough information to make an intelligent decision regarding the advice.

Most criticism is hater nonsense and does not make it past step 2.

Other things I take into consideration:

1. If they are professional and honestly want to give me helpful criticism they will contact me privately. But if their motivation is to hurt me or publicly humiliate me then they will post hurtful criticism in my public comments. These I do not tolerate and the comments are deleted.

2. I also look at the tone in which the comment is made.
" Your double lift is terrible!" - DELETED
" Why do you use that DL?" - APPROVED

3. Any comments with exposure in them are - DELETED

4. Any comments with boasting in them are - DELETED
"I figured that out"
"I saw what you did"
"first post"
"I know how that works."

5. Posting anonymously. If you are not man enough to stand up and take responsibility for your comments - DELETED
--------------------------------------

Also there is a rule all of us should live by. There are only 2 situations in which criticism is appropriate.

1. If someone asks you for advice
2. If you are an authority figure to that person. Doctor, parent, teacher, coach, supervisor, older brother ...etc

any other time criticism comes off as insulting and is very disrespectful. Even if you didn't mean it to be insulting it doesn't matter. You don't decide wether it is insulting the person receiving the comment does and you have to respect their feelings.
Your safest bet is to follow the 2 rules above and only give advice when asked or if you are an authority figure to that person. If you don't follow those 2 rules then you are the guy who goes around telling people what to do all the time. We all love that guy don't we.

I hope this answered some questions for you.

Thank You, Jonathan Kamm
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:09 AM   #12
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Hey Jonathan,

Thank you for joining and for posting.

However, the post seems to be both valid and invalid to me so please allow me to analyze it using a comment Vincent (M4sterV) recentely sent to us with your reply to it. It has to do with the video which Vincent linked to in his post in this thread.

Also, I do not know if this was manipulated by Vincent in any way but I will trust him that it was not, and that it was copied and pasted directly from the YouTube PMs.

Quote:
Quote:
Vincent:
"great compilation and awesome reactions! thumbs up

i dont know if you do allow feedback or not but this is 2 things i saw:

you get in to the crazy mans handcuffs in your hands almost to smooth to not think you do fast finger stuff at the effect. when she hold the band it was much better convincing. i would move to the left-right-up-down to convince instead of straight out but thats personal.

you did three lifts and you missed three times. is it worth 12.50$"
Jonathan:
"I disagree with your Handcuffs feedback. I missed the lift twice I hit it the third time. The blue deck was brand new the red deck was well used. The differences in the cards were a factor. Concentrating on proper technique is why I finally hit it the third time.

The tutorial is a steal at $12.50

Anything else I can help you with?

I don't allow exposure in my comments section so your comment was deleted. In the future feel free to private message me."
The main steps
1. Granted, because you sent him a PM and so you did not ignore him;

2. Although there is not much advice in the comment because he said it was something personal, the post seems to be good and valid to me. I would have approved this if it was posted to one of our videos;

3. By your reaction I guess that the comment was understood;

4. It is not clear where Vincent got the information from although that does not seem to matter in this case;

5. Talking to Vincent quite regularly, I am pretty sure that he does have good sources for everything he says so I guess this would not have been any problem;

6. He knows what he is talking about;

7. Other than "Anything else I can help you with?", no question was asked.


Other things you take into consideration
1. I do not see any intention to humiliate you in public;

2. The tone of voice seems to be fine;

3. There is no exposure and I do not know whether it was intentional or not, but Vincent's use of "lift" rather than fully naming the sleight seems to be a big part of that. I must point out that at the previous step you said that "Why would you use that DL?" would be approved. "DL" seems to be extremely close to exposure to me though. But I do not know if this point (3) would still have it removed or not;

4. No boasting. Instead, compliments were given.
I personally tend to approve the boasting kind of comments because in the end others will reply that do not care about it. In some cases it are actual laymen posting such comments which then turns it into something very valuable. Of course, this does not count for the "first post" kind of comments;

5. No anonymous posting.


The two situations in which you find criticism appropriate
1. Vincent asked for advice;

2. I doubt that he is an authority to you.


Conclusion
Although you said that you removed the comment due to magic exposure, I do not see that. This is a random message from the many messages we received, certainly not all of them coming from Vincent and not all of them being related to magic. In some cases it is rather obvious why you removed the comments, yet in other cases there is very valid feedback given which according to your post should actually have been approved.

I stand my conclusion, especially because you started marketing your release by saying that the tutorial is a steal at $12.50. Nothing wrong with that but flat out saying it does seem to be a little cheap to me, as well as that you apparently had to concentrate on the lift before it worked. Honestly, that does not sound like a good one to me.

Then in reply to the latest part of your post, I have to agree that you may look at things differently and that that is not up to us to judge. But it seems to upset quite a lot of people. If that many people do not get why their comments were not approved, I wonder if it is really their fault. In the most extreme example it would be the same as starting a war because you believe that that would make the world a better place and yourself a more respected person.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:23 AM   #13
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Hey Jon,
I got so many things to ask now.

The first three I thought of:

1) Why wouldn't you have others decide if a comment is valuable or not? If it's a bad comment or bad advice your regulars will be telling that to the person who left it or they will not give it thumbs up.

That way you get a much more realistic representation of the video ratings in case that is enabled and you make it yourself a lot easier because you only have to filter the comments including exposure.

We live in the era of 'Web 2.0' but you use it as 'Web 1.0' in which interactivity was almost non-existing. Back then it was normal to not be able to give opinions in public but now this leads to a legit damage of the image of businesses and persons in question.

2) I completely miss spectators' opinions in your huge list of steps and situations. If a layman gives criticism, it doesn't seem like you would approve that.

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between live performances and video performances. Effects that work great in real life are much more obvious in video performances to both magicians and laymen.

3) What exactly did you disagree on about Vincent's 'Crazy Man's Handcuffs' feedback?

Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Hey Jonathan,

Thank you for joining and for posting.

However, the post seems to be both valid and invalid to me so please allow me to analyze it using a comment Vincent (M4sterV) recentely sent to us with your reply to it. It has to do with the video which Vincent linked to in his post in this thread.

Also, I do not know if this was manipulated by Vincent in any way but I will trust him that it was not, and that it was copied and pasted directly from the YouTube PMs.



The main steps
1. Granted, because you sent him a PM and so you did not ignore him;

2. Although there is not much advice in the comment because he said it was something personal, the post seems to be good and valid to me. I would have approved this if it was posted to one of our videos;

3. By your reaction I guess that the comment was understood;

4. It is not clear where Vincent got the information from although that does not seem to matter in this case;

5. Talking to Vincent quite regularly, I am pretty sure that he does have good sources for everything he says so I guess this would not have been any problem;

6. He knows what he is talking about;

7. Other than "Anything else I can help you with?", no question was asked.


Other things you take into consideration
1. I do not see any intention to humiliate you in public;

2. The tone of voice seems to be fine;

3. There is no exposure and I do not know whether it was intentional or not, but Vincent's use of "lift" rather than fully naming the sleight seems to be a big part of that. I must point out that at the previous step you said that "Why would you use that DL?" would be approved. "DL" seems to be extremely close to exposure to me though. But I do not know if this point (3) would still have it removed or not;

4. No boasting. Instead, compliments were given.
I personally tend to approve the boasting kind of comments because in the end others will reply that do not care about it. In some cases it are actual laymen posting such comments which then turns it into something very valuable. Of course, this does not count for the "first post" kind of comments;

5. No anonymous posting.


The two situations in which you find criticism appropriate
1. Vincent asked for advice;

2. I doubt that he is an authority to you.


Conclusion
Although you said that you removed the comment due to magic exposure, I do not see that. This is a random message from the many messages I received, certainly not all of them coming from Vincent and not all of them being related to magic. In some cases it is rather obvious why you removed the comments, yet in other cases there is very valid feedback given which according to your post should actually have been approved.

I stand my conclusion, especially because you started marketing your release by saying that the tutorial is a steal at $12.50. Nothing wrong with that but flat out saying it does seem to be a little cheap to me, as well as that you apparently had to concentrate on the lift before it worked. Honestly, that does not sound like a good one to me.

Then in reply to the latest part of your post, I have to agree that you may look at things differently and that that is not up to us to judge. But it seems to upset quite a lot of people. If that many people do not get why their comments were not approved, I wonder if it is really their fault. In the most extreme example it would be the same as starting a war because you believe that that would make the world a better place and yourself a more respected person.
Well I thought it was insulting saying that my tutorial was not worth $12.50. I consider his mention of lifts exposure and he is also insulting my DL saying it isn't very good because I didnt hit it the first time. There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then because of this or that. I missed it twice then hit it the 3rd time, I don't see any problem with that. The audience didn't either. I also answered all his questions so I still see no problem here.

I have had nobody complain about any of my tutorials who have bought them. If any did feel they were inferior I would gladly refund their money.

Basically what it comes down to is I post my videos for free, they are gifts and nobody has any right to complain about them. If you do you are being petty and disrespectful.

---------- Post added at 04:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Hey Jon,
I got so many things to ask now.

The first three I thought of:

1) Why wouldn't you have others decide if a comment is valuable or not? If it's a bad comment or bad advice your regulars will be telling that to the person who left it or they will not give it thumbs up.

That way you get a much more realistic representation of the video ratings in case that is enabled and you make it yourself a lot easier because you only have to filter the comments including exposure.

We live in the era of 'Web 2.0' but you use it as 'Web 1.0' in which interactivity was almost non-existing. Back then it was normal to not be able to give opinions in public but now this leads to a legit damage of the image of businesses and persons in question.

2) I completely miss spectators' opinions in your huge list of steps and situations. If a layman gives criticism, it doesn't seem like you would approve that.

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between live performances and video performances. Effects that work great in real life are much more obvious in video performances to both magicians and laymen.

3) What exactly did you disagree on about Vincent's 'Crazy Man's Handcuffs' feedback?

Thanks.
1. Easy answer: My channel is mine I make the decisions, I choose how it looks, I choose what comments are appropriate. If you don't like the decisions I make simply don't subscribe. Do you let strangers clean your house, choose schools for your children or make other decisions. I would hope not.

2. What purpose would a layman have for criticizing my work on my public comments other than insulting my work? If they had a legitimate idea or way to improve they would contact me privately. Most criticism is hater nonsense and not worth approving.

3. I disagree with his suggestion. I would not do it the way he suggested. I feel you should never go back and forth. The 2 bands should touch in the center and not go near the ends. Its a possible solution. You could of gotten them off at the ends.

---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 AM ----------

Imagine this. If your first contact with a person is criticism no matter what it is you are saying it is going to be insulting. You are a stranger. It would be like going up to somebody you don't know and telling them "Dude you should not wear that shirt." How do you think that person would feel? Would they thank you? No they would be pretty upset. Not necessarily about the comment but your lack of respect in thinking it was alright to make that comment.

Its all about respect. You show me respect and I will listen to what you have to say.

It even takes your best friend a long time before they feel they have earned the right to criticize you. If you are a stranger it is never cool.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------

Its been brought to my attention that you gentleman may not be aware of the following.

I do magic for a living? I have no other job. I have been with the same restaurant for 13 years that is very rare in this business. While working there I also did 4 years with another brewery and 5 years with two other major restaurant chains. I also do private shows for some of the biggest companies in the area. I just recently started a regular gig at the Hollywood Casino and I plan on lecturing next year.


Richard,

Regarding my comment "Highest rated" 'Most viewed" on YouTube. It is not a lie. It refers to a video of my performance of a routine. It is the highest rated most viewed video of that routine on YouTube. Surpassing Bill Malones, Daryls and Tommy Wonders. When you look up the routine on Wikipedia it's my video.

When I need advice I ask people who are more skilled, more experienced, and more knowledgeable then I am. This is the way to get ahead in life. Avoiding negativity is another way to get ahead in life and the internet is full of it. Of course not all advice is negative. But all the best advice I have ever gotten in my 40+ years has been from people more knowledgeable, more skilled and more experienced than I am. I'm a very positive person and I listen and learn from people who know what they are talking about. I have even met friends on YouTube who have come and seen me work. Young magicians who I have helped get into the restaurant business. I learn from them and they learn from me. They came to meet me. We shared some magic. We got to know each other and now I value their opinion. They are bright and respectful young men who went about it the right way.

If your first interaction with me is you criticizing my work. You are not going to win any points.

It's all about respect. I find the pro magic world is full of very respectful people. They get it. But the internet forum magic crowd can be scary. I have never seen such mean and disrespectful people.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Well I thought it was insulting saying that my tutorial was not worth $12.50. I consider his mention of lifts exposure and he is also insulting my DL saying it isn't very good because I didnt hit it the first time. There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then because of this or that. I missed it twice then hit it the 3rd time, I don't see any problem with that. The audience didn't either. I also answered all his questions so I still see no problem here.

I have had nobody complain about any of my tutorials who have bought them. If any did feel they were inferior I would gladly refund their money.

Basically what it comes down to is I post my videos for free, they are gifts and nobody has any right to complain about them. If you do you are being petty and disrespectful
I think it is because I am an outsider, but it does not look insulting to me at all. It would have been different if he would have said that it was not worth the $12.50 instead of asking about it. A response like "There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then" would have been a lot more appropriate in that case, rather than just marketing it saying that it is a steal. It is the difference between informercials and quality marketing. I really hope you do not like the first one the most.

Also, I still do not see how the word 'lifts' is considered to be exposure. Anyone watching the video could see you actually slipped when trying to grab and lift the card. If Vincent intentionally wrote it like that, he definitely thought about not exposing it. Intentionally or not, he did not reveal anything.

From all the messages I read, I can tell that Vincent has only been trying to help and shared his views and ideas about the effects with you. In response, you reacted as if he did not know what he was talking about. Some people who care a lot about the art did notice that the replay in your 'One More Time' video gives away the effect to laymen and let you know about that. Some others have been trying to help as for video-technical aspects like the extremely long intro which now is much better.

Of course, there are haters who just like to hate on others, but I see that you also treat people who do not hate on you at all as actual haters. I do not know why this is or if you got so many more haters than helpers that you assume all people who mention such things automatically are hating on you, but I personally see complaining and trying to help as two completely different things.

When no one is allowed to 'complain', that would be the moment to get rid of the comment sections completely. This would force those who complain to PM you about what they dislike about you and your magic. Even better yet, is that it forces everyone to think about your videos whatever they want rather than being pushed in a positive direction while it is not the best video in the world and ending up being disappointed or upset to figure out you do not approve their feedback. This is exactly why many people contacted us about you.

Quote:
Imagine this. If your first contact with a person is criticism no matter what it is you are saying it is going to be insulting. You are a stranger. It would be like going up to somebody you don't know and telling them "Dude you should not wear that shirt." How do you think that person would feel? Would they thank you? No they would be pretty upset. Not necessarily about the comment but your lack of respect in thinking it was alright to make that comment.

Its all about respect. You show me respect and I will listen to what you have to say.

It even takes your best friend a long time before they feel they have earned the right to criticize you. If you are a stranger it is never cool.
That is a very valid point but it seems to be the difference between real life and the internet. On the internet, everyone is allowed to say whatever they want. Of course that means haters are too, and it is not that I like that, but it is good to know that you and I can say whatever we want as well. I am sure you have been using that freedom yourself too.

And often it are strangers who can judge something the best. If you already know someone, you are biased and this will have a lot of influence on the comment and rating you would give this person. For instance, if you would do a very bad trick your regulars know that you are capable of doing better and they will not dislike it that fast. On the other hand, when someone just finds out about you and watches the bad trick first, they can and might tell that it is not all that good.

But at least it is clear what you are coming from now. Thank you.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:29 PM   #16
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Richard,

Can you tell me about yourself? What is your magic background? I put myself out there. It seems only fair that I know who I am talking to.

Jonathan Kamm
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:14 PM   #17
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Thanks for the answers! I don't necessarily agree with them but thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. Much appreciated.

Instead of being all critic over it, I just want to remind you that you probably were the very first person who ever criticized me back when we were strangers to each other. You were in a very powerful position and I was just a beginner. So are you disliking on your own actions too or do you really think you got more rights than anyone else to say whatever you want because you are so much more experienced?

Because of the part you wrote that was automatically added to your big post later I'll have to mention the very first rule of this forum board. Please keep this in mind:
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Everyone is equal
All of us are human beings and we all deserve each other's respect. This also means we expect everyone to respect each other's opinions, performances and all the different kinds of arts, even if it is something you totally don't like or agree with. The only exception is if the person in question is not following the forum rules.

Also, Administrators and (Top) Moderators are here just to keep the forums clean and to guide those who need help with the forums. They are in no way better than any other person on here. This differs from most other forums out there where staff and elite members cause a lot of unnecessary trouble and hate by thinking they are better than the rest of the community. Please don't worry.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Thanks for the answers! I don't necessarily agree with them but thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. Much appreciated.

Instead of being all critic over it, I just want to remind you that you probably were the very first person who ever criticized me back when we were strangers to each other. You were in a very powerful position and I was just a beginner. So are you disliking on your own actions too or do you really think you got more rights than anyone else to say whatever you want because you are so much more experienced?

Because of the part you wrote that was automatically added to your big post later I'll have to mention the very first rule of this forum board. Please keep this in mind:
Mark,

Do you think it's respectful of this forum to talk negatively about me behind my back? Devoting an entire thread to bashing me and never inviting me to defend myself. I think this forum has shown me very little respect. Wouldn't you agree?
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:46 PM   #19
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I don't think the way you treat others is respectful either but as Richard said in the main post this thread was definitely not meant to bash or to hate on you.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:00 PM   #20
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I don't think the way you treat others is respectful either but as Richard said in the main post this thread was definitely not meant to bash or to hate on you.
So you think this thread shows respect for me and doesn't show me in a negative light and it was fair of them to do this without my knowledge?
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