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Old 03-16-2014, 04:37 PM   #1
CrazyInMagic
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 18
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It’s amazing to see what passes by when being subscribed to Mr. Miller’s Facebook and YouTube RSS feeds. After my previous post, I saw him post this on his Facebook:



Quite a senseless lie. He was not looking for reviews, he was merely checking out this forum and thread. It got me very suspicious so when I saw this discussion pass by last night I had to urge to check whether Mr. Miller was actually telling LeDiableBlanck and Philafxs the truth regarding his "420 Project" or not. So I did. To be completely fair I went over absolutely everything he said.

Quote:
Lediable, Your history of that is wrong. Myself and Danny Garcia came up with this waaaayyyyy before willam. I first published mine in 2006 in a project called backstage access, garcia was around the same time, again independently created.
JM
Mr. Miller accuses LeDiableBlanck’s "JM’s ACAAN" history of being wrong so what he brings up next would have to be the correct history. There is no evidence that Mr. Miller and Daniel Garcia came up with the "JM’s CAAN" and its concept before William Eston came up with his "Mates Prediction" at all though and this is really just a senseless statement to make. However, we do know the release dates. Mr. Miller’s "420 Project" came out in September 2011 and his "All Access Backstage Pass" was released in April 2008. Even if it would have been released in 2006, William Eston’s "Mates Prediction" was first published by Joshua Jay in the MAGIC Magazine of March 2004 so William Eston definitely was first and deserves some credits regardless of it being independent creations.

Quote:
They are not the same. I know of James Idea, and there are 3 before him that were independently created BEFORE him. Jean Pierre Valarino, Marlo, and charlie miller. My version of those others was independently created and i have some touches on it. But thanks. I do my research. I did not get to where I am by just "putting" stuff out there, without crediting or research.
JM
When comparing James Chadier’s "Rhythm Count" to Mr. Miller’s "JM Count" there are no differences in handling, timing and looks at all, up to the point that even both guys do the count into the spectators’ hands. Also, looking at the "420 Project" there is not a single moment when Mr. Miller credits or mentions James, Jean-Pierre Vallarino, Edward Marlo or Charlie Miller. If he did do his research and was aware of those before "putting" it out there, then why are there no credits?

Quote:
Great question!
Charlie miller, ken krenzell, or Kaufman did NOT create the pass, yet they have their own versions of it, The charlie miller pass, krenzel pass (many many variations if you know krenzels work) and the kaufman pass all have their name in the title. The reason is simple, IF a significant improvement has been added or made to an EXISTING move, that creator has every right to add his/her name to that addition, so that history shows a plethora of ideas on one plot by many magicians. My addition to this is significant because I have added an important beat to the count. Also, if you had the download you would of already know I credit those guys.
Also, you really need to know your history before you "try" and take a more experienced person to task.

JM
It indeed was a good question from Philafxs. But Charlie Miller, Ken Krenzel and Richard Kaufman have not actually named passes after themselves or claimed the "Pass" as a whole. The only new names they have come up with are the "Table Pass", "Krenzel’s Elliot (K-E) Pass" and "Half A Jiggle Pass" and all of those work and look very different than any other pass out there. The "Pass" also is not a move but a principle so it is not defined by any specific look and technique unlike what Mr. Miller calls the "JM Count". But indeed, significant changes have been made to the "Pass" by these three creators. That Mr. Miller is giving three non-existing examples does not really help though.

Mr. Miller then says that his addition to the count is an important beat. Since when is a timing-related change or addition of such significance to get credit for it, let alone to claim and rename the entire move and principle? In the related section or the entire "420 Project" he does not talk about the beat being his addition and absolutely no credits were given in the entire "420 Project" to the people Mr. Miller named in the discussion and said to have given credits to.

Quote:
"what you call the JM count or JM move is actually the Rhythm count. It's pretty bothering that when you put your initials in front of a trick or sleights name it's something that is already out there"

Did you even READ what you wrote. You tried to make a FACTUAL statement on a subject you obviously do not know enough about. By judging wrongly and making a accusation, you then put me in a position to defend my work, I do not like to do that, I am sure you would be a little pissed if you had someone put out MIS-INFORMATION about you and your work, on the internet?
JM
I do agree with Mr. Miller that Philafxs seemed a bit rude at first regardless of the smiley, but Philafxs definitely made factual statements and did not make false accusations. Mr. Miller defended himself with exactly zero facts and of every single thing he said only 20% was true at most, like that it were independent creations (giving him the benefit of the doubt) and the fact that creators have the rights to add their names to significantly changed tricks. Adding your name and giving proper credits in the publications is very different from claiming something in its entirety though.

Even worse is that Mr. Miller literally says the following in another part of the "420 Project":
Quote:
Daniel Garcia has some work on this as well [...] Rafael Benatar has of course some wonderful work on it as well [...] and the first person I saw doing it was Hippie Torrales [...] I just want to give you a little history. I want you to know the history of where this stuff comes from. It’s very important in magic that we understand this kind of stuff.
-Justin Miller
I absolutely agree, yet Mr. Miller didn’t give credits to Edward Marlo who came up with what he talked about, showed and said he saw Hippie Torrales do, and a little later in the "JM Count" section he keeps calling the classic 3-as-4 count the "Elmsley Count" while it is not an Elmsley Count and is not Elmsley’s either. The "Elmsley Count" is a combination of a 4-as-5 count by Eric de la Mare and Edward Victor’s "E-Y-E Count" for the push-off. A 3-as-4 count can by no means be an Elmsley Count or an alternative to it although Mr. Miller seemed and still seems to believe so, saying "elmsley, time to retire" in the description on his product page.

If Mr. Miller truly believes that what he has said is actually the truth, which seems to be the case for he even defended himself with these statements, one after the other being a lie, I am afraid we can hereby correctly diagnose him with confabulation. If he is aware of it all being lies, he is quite a pathological liar. Unfortunately, nothing being wrong with him truly is out of the question now, no matter how objective you would be when looking at this.
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