Theory11 Exposed... Again!

Fin · 11-20-2011, 05:23 AM

Albert, I was certainly not comparing magic products to Hollywood movies and if I ever do you may slap me. I was talking about the use of trailers in advertising, I was talking about why trailers are used and what is expected of them. Sorry, I must have missed the part where Mark was mentioned the product page; I was only talking about trailers in my little rant

You say Rick knew that this is the "Bow-to-Stern Control" by Ernest Erich and I think you are jumping the gun a little. Did you somehow read his mind? Aren't there other ways he could have come across this idea? Maybe this is why my opinion differs from yours - you see, I have bought "High Rise", and I have a wonderful friend who sent me the part of "By Forces Unseen" which describes the "Bow-to-Stern", and although the concept is the same (as Rick explains in the tutorial) the handling is very, very different. I prefer Rick's handling by a long way, as it brings the move up to date. The "Bow-to-stern" uses some very different finger positions, a totally different way of "setting up" the card, and it is broken into sections, whereas Rick's handling flows as one. As he said himself on a forum somewhere I just found by googling "Rick Lax High Rise review"..

"That's one reason I like it. The move is similar to the Ernest Earick move, but that move seems to have like 3 phases; this move reads as all one."

(http://www.learnmagictricks.org/foru...ad.php?t=31793)

Has anyone who's saying they are the same move actually read the original move (in By Forces Unseen) or seen Rick's tutorial, or better, BOTH? Because honestly the differences are clear, obvious and Rick's take on the idea is a definite improvement, in my humble and uneducated opinion. So despite any disagreements about the ethics of how trailers should be produced, we need to be clear on this.. IT IS NOT THE SAME HANDLING AT ALL. Just as with the wonderful Repulse Control, where you, Albert, have changed things and added things which have turned the DPS into something a hell of a lot better, Rick has made his own improvements to the "Bow-to-stern" which, in my humble opinion, do indeed make it a much superior, much more accessible move, and similarly to the Repulse involves such different finger positions and handling details that I think it deserves its own label. Is it possible Albert, that just as you came up with the Repulse "after failing to figure out the 'Diagonal Palm Shift' from other people's performances", Rick Lax also saw someone else performing the "bow-to-stern" or something very similar, maybe a fellow magician shared their take on it (as he explains in the tutorial), then Rick worked out his own handling? Is that not possible? Is that not comparable with your journey with the DPS and the Repulse? So the question then becomes; is the handling/finger positioning different enough to warrant it being called it's own name? And if the Repulse aint the DPS, which we all know it isn't, then I'm sorry, but High Rise is not the Bow-to-stern, there are too many differences which make it better.

And it's worth noting that in the "trailer" for the Repulse it said nothing about the credits, nothing about the DPS. Just a performance and a link to purchase the move. The credits and talk of the DPS being the foundation for the move came later, DURING the tutorial or in discussions on this forum, which is fine, right?

I think people should actually look carefully (a) at both moves in detail (b) at the "brief history" section in the tutorial before making sweeping statements about this new take on a classic move.

Just my two cents, and I acknowledge the fact that I'm a relative noob to magic so please be gentle.. This is only my opinion

11-20-2011, 05:23 AM	#11
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Albert, I was certainly not comparing magic products to Hollywood movies and if I ever do you may slap me. I was talking about the use of trailers in advertising, I was talking about why trailers are used and what is expected of them. Sorry, I must have missed the part where Mark was mentioned the product page; I was only talking about trailers in my little rant You say Rick knew that this is the "Bow-to-Stern Control" by Ernest Erich and I think you are jumping the gun a little. Did you somehow read his mind? Aren't there other ways he could have come across this idea? Maybe this is why my opinion differs from yours - you see, I have bought "High Rise", and I have a wonderful friend who sent me the part of "By Forces Unseen" which describes the "Bow-to-Stern", and although the concept is the same (as Rick explains in the tutorial) the handling is very, very different. I prefer Rick's handling by a long way, as it brings the move up to date. The "Bow-to-stern" uses some very different finger positions, a totally different way of "setting up" the card, and it is broken into sections, whereas Rick's handling flows as one. As he said himself on a forum somewhere I just found by googling "Rick Lax High Rise review".. "That's one reason I like it. The move is similar to the Ernest Earick move, but that move seems to have like 3 phases; this move reads as all one." (http://www.learnmagictricks.org/foru...ad.php?t=31793) Has anyone who's saying they are the same move actually read the original move (in By Forces Unseen) or seen Rick's tutorial, or better, BOTH? Because honestly the differences are clear, obvious and Rick's take on the idea is a definite improvement, in my humble and uneducated opinion. So despite any disagreements about the ethics of how trailers should be produced, we need to be clear on this.. IT IS NOT THE SAME HANDLING AT ALL. Just as with the wonderful Repulse Control, where you, Albert, have changed things and added things which have turned the DPS into something a hell of a lot better, Rick has made his own improvements to the "Bow-to-stern" which, in my humble opinion, do indeed make it a much superior, much more accessible move, and similarly to the Repulse involves such different finger positions and handling details that I think it deserves its own label. Is it possible Albert, that just as you came up with the Repulse "after failing to figure out the 'Diagonal Palm Shift' from other people's performances", Rick Lax also saw someone else performing the "bow-to-stern" or something very similar, maybe a fellow magician shared their take on it (as he explains in the tutorial), then Rick worked out his own handling? Is that not possible? Is that not comparable with your journey with the DPS and the Repulse? So the question then becomes; is the handling/finger positioning different enough to warrant it being called it's own name? And if the Repulse aint the DPS, which we all know it isn't, then I'm sorry, but High Rise is not the Bow-to-stern, there are too many differences which make it better. And it's worth noting that in the "trailer" for the Repulse it said nothing about the credits, nothing about the DPS. Just a performance and a link to purchase the move. The credits and talk of the DPS being the foundation for the move came later, DURING the tutorial or in discussions on this forum, which is fine, right? I think people should actually look carefully (a) at both moves in detail (b) at the "brief history" section in the tutorial before making sweeping statements about this new take on a classic move. Just my two cents, and I acknowledge the fact that I'm a relative noob to magic so please be gentle.. This is only my opinion