Jonathan Kamm (kammagic) Exposed

[Mark]

Josh, I think you missed the entire point of this thread. It's not about Jonathan Kamm's effects, nor his experience, nor anything that even has the slightest bit to do with magic yet that's where the obvious misunderstanding is. Don't worry, every single one of us really likes Jonathan as a magician and performer.

[Gnarlycardz]

yep, that seems right to me

[Mark]

But it's not just those who rate the video, who dislike it. Usually the ratings are very well represented by the comments (which half of the time aren't given by the same people) and by the rest of the viewers for that matter. It's just like in any democracy, you don't need every single person's vote to see whether something is more liked than something else.

Plus, in this particular case the lower rated video indeed wasn't quite as good as the higher rated one, from a performance and technical point and for either laymen and magicians.

[TommySteal]

Originally Posted by Mark

But it's not just those who rate the video, who dislike it. Usually the ratings are very well represented by the comments (which half of the time aren't given by the same people) and by the rest of the viewers for that matter. It's just like in any democracy, you don't need every single person's vote to see whether something is more liked than something else.

Plus, in this particular case the lower rated video indeed wasn't quite as good as the higher rated one, from a performance and technical point and for either laymen and magicians.

Hey Mark, I think this is a case of a mutual misunderstanding because I was speaking about all videos in general, and now it's become clear to me that you are talking about one or two very specific videos. Is that true? If so, it may help the discussion if I knew which vids you were talking about.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

All I was saying was I generally watch A video first, then sometimes I read peoples comments if A particular video has caught my interest. I have never clicked on a video, read the comments first, and then decided to watch it or not. That method isn't natural to me.

[Mark]

Okay, I'm majorly confused now.

I was merely replying to the last sentence of what you said in post #126. I fully agree on the rest, which is similar to the second part of what you just posted (post #130).

However, I was indeed comparing two videos of the same artist (Jonathan Kamm) with each other, but I'm pretty sure the same thing goes for all videos in general, which is why I am lost right now.

[TommySteal]

I'm lost too. Personally, ratings mean nothing to me. I mean if it were compulsory to vote I still wouldn't check how many likes the video had before watching the vid. I'd just watch it and decide for myself.
Maybe, I meant better regulated as opposed to true.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

Though I'm not suggesting this should happen for real. It's too black and white.

[Mark]

I think the confusion is caused because you're mixing things up a little. It's not about the people who watch the video and rate it but about what the video author does with those ratings.

If a video author thinks he did an amazing job while many if not most people who usually give his videos thumbs up, give this particular video thumbs down instead, there must have been something wrong and the video author better starts questioning the video. That, Jonathan said he would never do because he got so much experience and knows that whatever he does is great.. which is what I strongly disagree with.

[TommySteal]

I don't know if it's possible to manipulate the ammount of likes and dislikes your video has, is that what you mean about "what the authour does with those ratings"?, but I'm aware that comments can be removed. But yeah of course you have a point in your last paragraph - that very much sounds like the attitude of someone who doesn't like to be criticized.

[Mark]

"What the video author does with those ratings" means whether the video author will look at those ratings and whether he will use them to improve.
I'm glad you agree.

[Travmang]

I have a very similar problem that just happened to me. A guy came on one of my videos and commented on it saying its nothing like the original which is true, and also that my change sucked. I'm completely fine with that and I know its true, because I think the same myself. Its just the way he said it came across as highly disrespectful. I have no intention of deleting comments or anything because I'm not like that. BUT, I did leave a fairly lengthy 3 comment response speaking my mind, which I think is okay because he left his honest opinion so i left mine as well. Maybe I went a little too far with it, and keep in mind I never would have responded had it been a normal comment or even a negative one as long as its constructive, i mean thats what leaving comments is there for.

Basically, I'm asking if my response was justified or If I went too far and my actions were unwarranted. I'd like your guys' thoughts on the matter, and thanks alot for taking the time. =)

Here is the link to the video where the comments were posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y4C1BBZGTE

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Travmang

I have a very similar problem that just happened to me. A guy came on one of my videos and commented on it saying its nothing like the original which is true, and also that my change sucked. I'm completely fine with that and I know its true, because I think the same myself. Its just the way he said it came across as highly disrespectful. I have no intention of deleting comments or anything because I'm not like that. BUT, I did leave a fairly lengthy 3 comment response speaking my mind, which I think is okay because he left his honest opinion so i left mine as well. Maybe I went a little too far with it, and keep in mind I never would have responded had it been a normal comment or even a negative one as long as its constructive, i mean thats what leaving comments is there for.

Basically, I'm asking if my response was justified or If I went too far and my actions were unwarranted. I'd like your guys' thoughts on the matter, and thanks alot for taking the time. =)

Here is the link to the video where the comments were posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y4C1BBZGTE

Can't agree more with what you did. Maybe it was a bit too much as it could've fit in a single comment, but it's all correct and fine.

[Travmang]

Okay thats good to know, thanks a lot! I appreciate it

[TommySteal]

I just clicked your link and read his comment and your response. I'd be pretty pissed too with that lack of respect. Thinking about it though, I really don't know how I'd reply other than try to defend myself like you did. And it's really not worth deleting comments

[Travmang]

Oh yeah of course not, I have a thing about Freedom of Speech. Everyone deserves to have their opinion heard even if you don't agree with it. Besides, another thing of mine, I really wasn't angry, i was upset though but.... After playing WoW for almost 4 years now off and on, and having to deal with incredibly rude and immature people in the game, its come to a point where I enjoy arguments, I thrive off of them, and I don't lose arguments. Well, mostly! lol

[Mark]

Back on topic, I actually found something and I just.. felt the need to share this. About a month ago, Jonathan actually commented to a video of someone performing his trick. Now, let me try to explain the situation:

In the original video of the trick, the deck is shuffled and the jokers are going find.. let's say.. the two jacks.. visually. One joker gets put in the middle of the deck, the other one is on top, the deck is turned over and bamn.. the cards have changed.

Now, in this other person's performance, the jacks (deuces) were separately lost in the deck first before the jokers (kings) were put in and onto the deck and the change happened. The person in question did a pretty good and amazingly consistent job. And the comment that followed is just.. blah..

Originally Posted by kammagic

Losing the 2's in the beginning is completely unnecessary.

Really? And you think that you're the nicest guy in the world? That definitely was the most constructive and nicest criticism I have ever seen. Major props to the performer actually making this trick his own and doing whatever suited him. Jonathan, if you read this, just.. wow.. left me speechless.. (till I started writing this, of course).

[TommySteal]

Hey Mark, you should post a link to the video in question.

[Mark]

Since you know who we're talking about, finding it for yourself is a real piece of cake.

[Kelan]

Sorry, about bumping the thread guys, but Jonathan has seem to strike again =0

I commented on his "Middle School Magic" video saying something along the lines of "Great performance but I did feel the card to wallet was a little rushed. But excellent performance". (I really did like it, I just felt the need to comment about how he rushed the effect) This, to me, in no way, shape, or form violates his "rules" of allowing you to comment on his videos. Which are right here:

(1. I listen to everyone (I don't ignore anyone)
2. I judge the advice first by itself. Is it good or bad advice? Using my 25 years experience usually this is quite clear.
3. If I'm on the fence or don't understand the advice I start looking at criteria.
4. Where did they get the info? Why do they think this is good advice? What do they know about the topic? I will ask a battery of questions if I don't understand the advice.
5. If the advice is something they really know about they will have no
problem answering my questions. If it's something they read or heard somewhere. They will have trouble answering my questions.
6. It may only take one answer to a question for me to realize this guy knows what he is talking about or one answer to know he doesn't.
7. I will ask questions until I have enough information to make an intelligent decision regarding the advice.)

I even discussed this with Mark on MSN, Mark first mentioning it to me and me realizing that is was true (at least, in our opinions of course. Your guys' might be different). The only shred of reasoning Jonathan might have is me (and Mark) "Violating" "rule" number 2. Apparently, his 25 years of experience thought this was "bad advice". What do you guys think of this?

EDIT: Also, what is not impromptu about the following trick? Jonathan told me it is not impromptu.


Sorry about the audio being out of sync- it was made with my webcam :P

[ItsMagicITellYou]

this guy sounds absolutley ridic. whats his channel? i wanna see some of his videos.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by ItsMagicITellYou

this guy sounds absolutley ridic. whats his channel? i wanna see some of his videos.

It's kammagic.

This occurrence is exactly the same as when Andy Field had claimed, when he saw my ACID transpo to Jay, saying this, which Jay told me later:

Originally Posted by Andy Field

Acid: Darwin Ortiz taught me this last year. To avoid any palming a duplicate card must be used. Pocket can't be shown empty and the cards can't be signed. Waste of time trick.

Oh' REALLY!? Darwin Ortiz taught you moves I've used that was most likely never released or published until I used it?

He friggin' called it a waste of time trick just because he has no friggin' creativity developed in all his 'experience' of magic. This phenomenon seems to be very common: You get more experience in magic, you get stupendously cocky just because you have more people acknowledging your talents through time. This is one of the main reasons why I was placed 5th in the contest. I had to perform for Jay one of the secret moves I used in ACID Transpo and then Jay practically took that performance of one move and used it as my contest entry, as you can hear him say about my entry something like "It's not a trick, but more of a move".

I'm getting really irritated by people their stupidity in claiming something as something else when they lack the intellect to figure it out.