Mark's "Bertram Shadow" by me

Fin · 06-09-2011, 03:39 AM

Like all my card magic it's early days with this, but given a bit more time I think I might crack it. What do you think guys? Got any tips for me Mark?

I wish my hands were just a little bigger. I used the camera angle to my advantage to reduce the chance of flashing but at the moment live performances would suffer so I don't think I'm quite ready for a street test, lol. But still, I hope this shows what can be done with a bit of good practice. With a bit more, who knows!

TheMisdirectingHand · 06-09-2011, 03:57 AM

Good job! I also see that you're taking the fight to The Magic Cafe to defend Mark! Way to go!

Fin · 06-09-2011, 04:06 AM

Thanks dude. But it's not so much about Mark; I'm more defending myself... since I've stated several times that the products I have bought are genuine and more than possible with enough practice yet I've been called a sucker and told the bertram is impossible!! So when I said it is possible I was just lying was I? My video suggests otherwise. There are some interesting characters in The Magic Cafe.. I shall leave it at that. lol

TheMisdirectingHand · 06-09-2011, 04:16 AM

I am extremely proud of you, dude. I should grab myself a moneypak and buy the change...

Fin · 06-09-2011, 05:40 AM

Well now over at the Cafe I'm being told my vid could be revealing stuff it shouldn't be...! Mark, if you don't like any part of this video please tell me and I will edit/remove it. The last thing I want to do is reveal the secret!

Kieran Oloughlin · 06-09-2011, 06:32 AM

Really really good

TheMisdirectingHand · 06-09-2011, 07:22 AM

There is nothing wrong with the video. They're just saying that because they have something against Mark. Your performance is slow, but does not give anything away.

la0o9 · 06-09-2011, 07:38 AM

people hate being proven wrong, and will take measures if that happens, now, when people completely change their direction of attack( like they stop saying that you are lying and resort to undermining your skills), it means they've lost.

Fin · 06-09-2011, 07:58 AM

Thanks guys. It is quite slow isn't it, but hey.. Practice, practice, practice...

TommySteal · 06-09-2011, 11:51 AM

It is a little slow, and I don't know what it is..? Although you never flash and you end up with a clean result, there's something rigid and unnatural in the way you move. I don't think this has anything to do with your technique at card handling, it's more to do with the practicalities of the effect itself. With that said, I have no idea how the change works - but I can't help being skeptical. I think your video performance shows that the angles in a live situation would no doubt be more sensitive than a root canal.

Mark · 06-09-2011, 11:59 AM

Well done, but there is an easy way you overlooked in making this a lot faster and more visual. I'll PM you.
But you did an excellent job and you definitely got the technique down. Now it's time for smoothing it out and mastering it.

Fin · 06-10-2011, 04:36 AM

Tommy I couldn't agree more. The movement and posture of the cover-hand do not look anywhere near as natural as I would like. I have a big problem in that my hand is not quite big enough to cover all the "action". This is why I had to use the camera angle to my advantage so that my hand could hide everything it needed to. Yunno you can hide the moon behind your thumb? It was kinda like that! lol.

Mark I'd love some tips as I'm getting smoother at the main move every day. Just got angle issues that need working out.

---------- Post added at 03:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 AM ----------

I just had an amazing chat with Mark and he showed me some ways that will definitely help me to clean this up and hopefully make it sparkle... so watch this space peeps!

Thankyou so much Mark for taking the time out to give me some pointers. I learnt more in that 20 minutes with you than I've learnt in weeks of watching tutorials. Am gonna find it hard sleeping tonight! Anyway; next stop.. THE PASS! :O

TheMisdirectingHand · 06-10-2011, 05:10 AM

I tried working with the Classic Pass... I could never get the transpositions fast enough to look perfect. I looked into alternatives and I now work with those. =)

Fin · 06-10-2011, 05:31 AM

Which tutorials have you watched? I learnt it from several videos and some of them are really awful! It's well worth putting the time into and not half as difficult as some people make out. You'll here some people say "it took me 3 years before I was ready to take my pass out on the streets" !! That is rediculous. If taught well its not that tough. However having said that I'm not ready to film mine yet, lol!

TommySteal · 06-10-2011, 11:06 AM

I think the reason it looks suspicious is because at the moment you don't really have a motivation for your hand being over the deck, other than simply to hide what you are doing. I think that's why changes like the classic erdnase (done well) and the sideways erdanse work so well - there is motivation for the hand cover i.e a magical rub or wave. Maybe you could eventually have something, all the best with the practicing!

Kieran Oloughlin · 06-10-2011, 12:28 PM

I learnt the pass form ninja 1 and after a couple of months I was performing it but it needs covering which is not to hard

la0o9 · 06-11-2011, 02:13 AM

practicing the classic pass is one thing...( i can do it quick enough for it to look like a real color change if you look at it from above) but for some reason i couldn't cover the break up no matter how much i try...

TheMisdirectingHand · 06-11-2011, 04:08 AM

I learned the Classic Pass from a friend over the internet. I can't get the transpositions fast enough to the extent of the audience burning my hands. If I use my own covering actions though, I can get it to look like a good colour change.

Fin · 06-11-2011, 04:18 AM

Thanks for the insight Tommy. I definitely need to speed it all up so that it just looks like I'm waving over the card rather than obviously "hiding" what's going on. With the tips Mark gave me I'll definitely improve it alot, so watch this space.

mtsmartins · 06-12-2011, 12:59 AM

Well done Fin, this change is beautiful haha...
I'm practicing it , when i think it's good enough i upload on youtobe (:

06-09-2011, 03:39 AM	#1
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Mark's "Bertram Shadow" by me Like all my card magic it's early days with this, but given a bit more time I think I might crack it. What do you think guys? Got any tips for me Mark? I wish my hands were just a little bigger. I used the camera angle to my advantage to reduce the chance of flashing but at the moment live performances would suffer so I don't think I'm quite ready for a street test, lol. But still, I hope this shows what can be done with a bit of good practice. With a bit more, who knows!

06-09-2011, 03:57 AM	#2
TheMisdirectingHand David Nguyen Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rosemead, California Posts: 406	Good job! I also see that you're taking the fight to The Magic Cafe to defend Mark! Way to go! __________________ "There are three types of people in this world; •People who talk and never do: The Lower Class •People who talk and do at the same time: The Middle Class •People who do before they ever talk: The Upper Class A real man does not need to talk. We are the upper class." -Joseph Lau

06-09-2011, 04:16 AM	#4
TheMisdirectingHand David Nguyen Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rosemead, California Posts: 406	I am extremely proud of you, dude. I should grab myself a moneypak and buy the change... __________________ "There are three types of people in this world; •People who talk and never do: The Lower Class •People who talk and do at the same time: The Middle Class •People who do before they ever talk: The Upper Class A real man does not need to talk. We are the upper class." -Joseph Lau

06-09-2011, 07:22 AM	#7
TheMisdirectingHand David Nguyen Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rosemead, California Posts: 406	There is nothing wrong with the video. They're just saying that because they have something against Mark. Your performance is slow, but does not give anything away. __________________ "There are three types of people in this world; •People who talk and never do: The Lower Class •People who talk and do at the same time: The Middle Class •People who do before they ever talk: The Upper Class A real man does not need to talk. We are the upper class." -Joseph Lau

06-09-2011, 07:38 AM	#8
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	people hate being proven wrong, and will take measures if that happens, now, when people completely change their direction of attack( like they stop saying that you are lying and resort to undermining your skills), it means they've lost. __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

06-09-2011, 04:06 AM	#3
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Thanks dude. But it's not so much about Mark; I'm more defending myself... since I've stated several times that the products I have bought are genuine and more than possible with enough practice yet I've been called a sucker and told the bertram is impossible!! So when I said it is possible I was just lying was I? My video suggests otherwise. There are some interesting characters in The Magic Cafe.. I shall leave it at that. lol

06-09-2011, 05:40 AM	#5
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Well now over at the Cafe I'm being told my vid could be revealing stuff it shouldn't be...! Mark, if you don't like any part of this video please tell me and I will edit/remove it. The last thing I want to do is reveal the secret!

06-09-2011, 06:32 AM	#6
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	Really really good

06-09-2011, 07:58 AM	#9
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Thanks guys. It is quite slow isn't it, but hey.. Practice, practice, practice...

06-09-2011, 11:51 AM	#10
TommySteal Tom Join Date: May 2011 Location: Italy Posts: 274	It is a little slow, and I don't know what it is..? Although you never flash and you end up with a clean result, there's something rigid and unnatural in the way you move. I don't think this has anything to do with your technique at card handling, it's more to do with the practicalities of the effect itself. With that said, I have no idea how the change works - but I can't help being skeptical. I think your video performance shows that the angles in a live situation would no doubt be more sensitive than a root canal. __________________ My cigar is not a symbol. It's only a cigar. - Sigmund Freud

06-09-2011, 11:59 AM	#11
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	Well done, but there is an easy way you overlooked in making this a lot faster and more visual. I'll PM you. But you did an excellent job and you definitely got the technique down. Now it's time for smoothing it out and mastering it.

06-10-2011, 04:36 AM	#12
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Tommy I couldn't agree more. The movement and posture of the cover-hand do not look anywhere near as natural as I would like. I have a big problem in that my hand is not quite big enough to cover all the "action". This is why I had to use the camera angle to my advantage so that my hand could hide everything it needed to. Yunno you can hide the moon behind your thumb? It was kinda like that! lol. Mark I'd love some tips as I'm getting smoother at the main move every day. Just got angle issues that need working out. ---------- Post added at 03:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 AM ---------- I just had an amazing chat with Mark and he showed me some ways that will definitely help me to clean this up and hopefully make it sparkle... so watch this space peeps! Thankyou so much Mark for taking the time out to give me some pointers. I learnt more in that 20 minutes with you than I've learnt in weeks of watching tutorials. Am gonna find it hard sleeping tonight! Anyway; next stop.. THE PASS! :O

06-10-2011, 05:10 AM	#13
TheMisdirectingHand David Nguyen Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rosemead, California Posts: 406	I tried working with the Classic Pass... I could never get the transpositions fast enough to look perfect. I looked into alternatives and I now work with those. =) __________________ "There are three types of people in this world; •People who talk and never do: The Lower Class •People who talk and do at the same time: The Middle Class •People who do before they ever talk: The Upper Class A real man does not need to talk. We are the upper class." -Joseph Lau

06-10-2011, 05:31 AM	#14
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Which tutorials have you watched? I learnt it from several videos and some of them are really awful! It's well worth putting the time into and not half as difficult as some people make out. You'll here some people say "it took me 3 years before I was ready to take my pass out on the streets" !! That is rediculous. If taught well its not that tough. However having said that I'm not ready to film mine yet, lol!

06-10-2011, 11:06 AM	#15
TommySteal Tom Join Date: May 2011 Location: Italy Posts: 274	I think the reason it looks suspicious is because at the moment you don't really have a motivation for your hand being over the deck, other than simply to hide what you are doing. I think that's why changes like the classic erdnase (done well) and the sideways erdanse work so well - there is motivation for the hand cover i.e a magical rub or wave. Maybe you could eventually have something, all the best with the practicing! __________________ My cigar is not a symbol. It's only a cigar. - Sigmund Freud

06-10-2011, 12:28 PM	#16
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	I learnt the pass form ninja 1 and after a couple of months I was performing it but it needs covering which is not to hard

06-11-2011, 02:13 AM	#17
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	practicing the classic pass is one thing...( i can do it quick enough for it to look like a real color change if you look at it from above) but for some reason i couldn't cover the break up no matter how much i try... __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

06-11-2011, 04:08 AM	#18
TheMisdirectingHand David Nguyen Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rosemead, California Posts: 406	I learned the Classic Pass from a friend over the internet. I can't get the transpositions fast enough to the extent of the audience burning my hands. If I use my own covering actions though, I can get it to look like a good colour change. __________________ "There are three types of people in this world; •People who talk and never do: The Lower Class •People who talk and do at the same time: The Middle Class •People who do before they ever talk: The Upper Class A real man does not need to talk. We are the upper class." -Joseph Lau

06-11-2011, 04:18 AM	#19
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	Thanks for the insight Tommy. I definitely need to speed it all up so that it just looks like I'm waving over the card rather than obviously "hiding" what's going on. With the tips Mark gave me I'll definitely improve it alot, so watch this space.

06-12-2011, 12:59 AM	#20
mtsmartins Join Date: May 2011 Location: São Paulo - Brazil Posts: 10	Well done Fin, this change is beautiful haha... I'm practicing it , when i think it's good enough i upload on youtobe (: