Theory11 Exposed... Again!

[Fin]

If you buy a dvd the credits are at the end, included on the dvd, but you usually still have to buy it to watch them all. Same with a book; all the credits are in there. Should they also be included on every poster or advertisement? Of course not. The trailer's sole purpose is to get attention for the product. The role of an advertisement has never been to give credit to all creators involved. Sure, if Spielberg directed the film you'll make a big deal of it, but this is not the main push of most adverts and I think it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect let alone insist on crediting in a video trailer, whatever it may be for. If someone really wants to find out as much as they can about the credits BEFORE they buy the trick then a bit of homework is not a difficult thing.

Honestly, I think most people who actually buy this will be doing so because they love the look of the move and they simply want to learn it. The history lessons can be kept for later, and they are; included in the video there is a "brief history" segment where Mr Lax gives a long list of people who have worked on the idea before him. He isn't trying to hide anything and neither are Theory 11 who have done similar releases before. Dan White presents "Card to Mouth". Jason England teaching classic sleights like the "classic pass", "cover pass", "overhand shuffle".. etc. Sure, if you knew little about card magic you could be forgiven for thinking Jason invented all those! But this doesn't mean the trailer needs to babysit you and make everything crystal clear before you've even bought the video!

The move is quite difficult to do well; I'm just glad someone has finally filmed a relatively detailed tutorial on it

---------- Post added at 03:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 AM ----------

A quick quote from someone who's purchased this and posted their comments on the Theory11 website..

"Geraint Clarke • South Wales, UK • 11/13/11
So much more than I was expecting. Rick really has improved on a classic here. The mechanics of it are much more fun to perform, and he covers every little movement in a professional step by step download. Great crediting, great move, great download. Get it!"

Notice his use of the words "improved on a classic", and "great crediting". Yes, he's not talking about the trailer, but I think it's worth noting, that this customer at least, is under no illusions as to the origin of this move.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by Fin

Of course not. The trailer's sole purpose is to get attention for the product. The role of an advertisement has never been to give credit to all creators involved. Sure, if Spielberg directed the film you'll make a big deal of it, but this is not the main push of most adverts and I think it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect let alone insist on crediting in a video trailer, whatever it may be for. If someone really wants to find out as much as they can about the credits BEFORE they buy the trick then a bit of homework is not a difficult thing.

Fin, you are missing out on a huge point here. It may be that Mark and I have been performing magic for a longer time that we are more sensitive to credits and history. Regardless, magic products can't be compared to Hollywood movies.

Mark mentioned before "... meaning that from now on Rick Lax is the original inventor of the 'Blind Square' and 'HighRise'". There are so many young magicians out there who loses the concept of crediting correctly all for the reason that existing moves are renamed, and more so due to big magic companies releasing like that. When authorities (or so assumed to be one) claim something, people take it as the truth. Why? Because they are authorities.

Rick Lax knew very well that this is called the Bow-to-Stern Control. Knowing that, it has been renamed HighRise and from now on, it will be known as HighRise by 99% of the people - by the new generation of magicians. Ernest's contribution to the original move will die out eventually, slowly, but surely. That's no respect for the original creator. It's not about specifically crediting. It's about respect for those who took the time to came up with it, not just make improvements on it. That's why it's important to credit it in the product's page. For those who don't buy, but simply see the trailers, they will say "Oh, It's Rick's new move." For those who know Ernest's control, we can say "Oh, Rick made some improvements on Ernest's Move." You don't see Jason England renaming the classic pass just because he made improvements on it because you can clearly tell he values history and respects those who came up with the idea. Theory11 doesn't show that anymore, which is badly influencing the new generation of magicians.

Fin, imagine someone took a song of yours you composed, switched a few notes around, put it up or down an octave, and switched your Rondo form of ABCBA and turned it into a Ternary form of ABA. Then renamed it, claiming it as his. That would probably make it a pretty different song for those with untrained ears and would think that it's that punk arse bastard's composition, not yours. That's the situation here.

As magician's we really have to value history because that's what keeps the art truly on the right path. I don't know how to express it in words clearly, but that's what I feel. I also think that such an act plays around with morality of who created it and who takes credit for it.

[ouncesmusic]

Originally Posted by Albert

...imagine someone took a song of yours you composed, switched a few notes around, put it up or down an octave, and switched your Rondo form of ABCBA and turned it into a Ternary form of ABA. Then renamed it, claiming it as his. That would probably make it a pretty different song for those with untrained ears and would think that it's that punk arse bastard's composition, not yours. That's the situation here.

Well put.

When I am sampling music, I always make it very clear that the rightful artist gets the credit they deserve. Their music inspired my improvisation over there original. I appreciated it enough that I used it as if it were mine (I had wished). In this 'al mighty dollar' driven world, people are strictly marketing for profits and from here on out we will more than likely see less and less honors towards the rightful people of inspiration, whatever it may be for.

[la0o9]

Originally Posted by Fin

If you buy a dvd the credits are at the end, included on the dvd, but you usually still have to buy it to watch them all. Same with a book; all the credits are in there. Should they also be included on every poster or advertisement?

the thing is Fin, sure, you don't need credits in the adverts, but Mark was talking about the product page, where you are given details to actually know what you're buying, which is necessary for credits to be given.