Opinions on lying in a youtube video

[TommySteal]

Originally Posted by ItsMagicITellYou

XD if a magician says "the deck can be shuffled" and proceeds to give the deck a false shuffle, i think its ok, but if he says "shuffled by a spectator" and it cant be, i think its a question of ethics, and its wrong. imagine if people started marketing tricks like that, falsely saying it can be 'shuffled'. that would be wrong.

At the end of the day I think it's only a few amateur magicians on youtube that blatantly lie in this way - like saying a deck can be shuffled by a spectator when it can't. It's not unethical, it's just annoying and immature. A professional magician would never let this situation happen live.

Yes, as I said in my previous post, it would be wrong to market a card trick by stating the deck can be shuffled when it can't.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by TommySteal

It's not unethical, it's just annoying and immature.

Most magicians including myself would definitely call it unethical though.

[Albert]

As I've said, I guess it really truly depends on what one defines ethics in terms of magic in this situation.

[TommySteal]

I just looked up the word in the dictionary to be sure, and using such a word when talking about a kid in youtube vid seems a little uncalled for to me, but you know if you guys want to continue putting a price on his head then so be it.

[Mark]

We don't put a price on anyone's head, but we put a price on exposing such actions for the sake that hopefully no one else is going to do the same bad things.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by TommySteal

I just looked up the word in the dictionary to be sure, and using such a word when talking about a kid in youtube vid seems a little uncalled for to me, but you know if you guys want to continue putting a price on his head then so be it.

I don't think age really plays a big factor here, given that he seems to have been into magic for more than enough to understand what's right and what's wrong. He's old enough to know better.

No one's putting a price on his head or what not. We are simply talking about him as an example; we already finished our actual debate on him in the Alert section. Don't misunderstand us, but ethics is something that people learn as a young person in terms of the subject we are talking about, not the age. Saying that, I don't see the problem about using this term.

[TommySteal]

The definition of the term "Ethics" never changes. All I'm saying is here the word is being used out of context.
I thought this scenario would be unethical: a chef accidentally serving an ingredient to a customer who has previously stated that they are allergic to that particular ingredient.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by TommySteal

The definition of the term "Ethics" never changes. All I'm saying is here the word is being used out of context.
I thought this scenario would be unethical: a chef accidentally serving an ingredient to a customer who has previously stated that they are allergic to that particular ingredient.

I don't think there is anything unethical about an accident. For a chef, it may be unethical to not double check though.

The definition of 'unethical' is simple: not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior. That is exactly what we are exposing.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by Mark

I don't think there is anything unethical about an accident. For a chef, it may be unethical to not double check though.

The definition of 'unethical' is simple: not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior. That is exactly what we are exposing.

I agree completely; the failure to double check can be considered unethical, but the accident he caused shouldn't be. If he ignored the client's request, then that's intentional and unethical. An accident/mistake is unintentional.

[TommySteal]

I was using the example more to highlight the association with ethics and professionalism. To me, a guy in a youtube vid is not a professional situation, which is why I thought the term unethical to describe his actions was a little strong.
But I see your points.

In fact even if the guy was performing live on stage, and having said the spectator can shuffle deck, he then refuses to hand over the deck, he's just going to look like an ass.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by TommySteal

In fact even if the guy was performing live on stage, and having said the spectator can shuffle deck, he then refuses to hand over the deck, he's just going to look like an ass.

Hmm... I've seen some great performers doing that and I've done it myself in the past too, without any problem. If you merge the statement into the performance nicely and don't put much attention to it, spectators will actually end up thinking they were indeed able to shuffle the deck.
But I see your point.

But yeah, it's not that we just look at YouTube magicians from a professional point of view, although often those who make these unethical decisions actually do see themselves as professionals. Still, from a social point of view it would be unethical too.

For me it remains simple: tell the truth, apart from when you're being a magician. You are a magician when performing, whether it is live or in videos, but you are not a magician in the video descriptions or in advertisements.

[TommySteal]

Yes, I think magicians like David Williamson and Tom Mullica could pull it off quite well due to their characters. But not everyone is capable of handling people the way they do/did.

[Kieran Oloughlin]

Damn I should of read this topic instead of being lazy and avoding it, I missed out on a very constructive conversation!