Disappointment in today's magic industry... - Page 2

TheMisdirectingHand · 08-20-2011, 05:27 PM

This is just stupid. Some of his videos are basically just takes on other moves. Monet was the Paintbrush change, then we have TOP... then the AP... then... the Brick Pass...

Mark · 08-20-2011, 05:32 PM

Some? Just say all of his playing card involving releases (which are by far the most).

Fin · 08-21-2011, 05:09 AM

They are a bit disappointing aren't they

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-21-2011, 10:33 AM

I highly respect dan and dave, and there magic and there flourishes and there awesomness. The downloads are resonable to I think as the tweaks often improve things in my opinion, but I dont buy the tweaked ones much. I have got the ap spread control and I was dissapointed. So yes they could do much better, but I think they are doing fine all the same.

Mark · 08-21-2011, 10:43 AM

D&D went down the drain since they released magic instead of just flourishes. They aren't magicians so it's kind of obvious too.

KGaborMagic · 08-21-2011, 10:53 AM

W-wa-wait!
They have amazing tricks as well. For example there is Subway. I can get amazing reactions with it.

Mark · 08-21-2011, 11:01 AM

But tricks aren't necessarily magic. They don't present it in a magical way, so what I meant is that since they released magic (tricks presented in a magical way, in their case from other artists), it went bad.

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-21-2011, 12:39 PM

I am pretty sure they are magcians all theough they do a lot of flourishes. The tricks on the trick dvd are some of the besttricks Ive seen. But they do say to crowds that what they are doing is sleight of hand not magic dont they?

Mark · 08-21-2011, 12:43 PM

Indeed, and therefore it's not magic and they aren't magicians. It's just a common misunderstanding. It are still tricks though.

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-22-2011, 10:25 AM

Okay I get it now

la0o9 · 08-23-2011, 01:03 AM

i like all the tricks they did on the TRICKS DVD, but you're right, you can't use their presentation and still call it magic, i almost always have to tweak the moves a bit or the patter a bit to fit my performance style... but besides the Tricks DVD, the rest of their releases after that are just... i think... flourishes done semi-secretly( not talking about the old magicians who released their old effects on DnD, those tricks are good i think)

MysteryHand · 08-24-2011, 07:27 AM

Brick Pass DVD is $17.95 ?!! Turnover Pass is just $5.95 and Brick Pass is $9.95

Mark · 08-24-2011, 09:47 AM

DVD is $2.05 = $17.95.

No, but indeed, it doesn't make much sense. Basically they say "Don't get the DVD, download it, it will save you two bucks! And it's easier to share with your friends too!". It's just an invitation to file sharing in my opinion.

s13zeTheDay · 08-26-2011, 03:56 AM

Just a comment on Dan and Dave- though I agree that some of the downloads can be misconstrued as "magic" magic, I do appreciate their take on magic tricks. I saw them lecture a few months ago and they showed a few flourished and tricks and said that they adapt tricks to make it more skill/flourishing based and they showed some ideas around that. I don't necessarily think that one way is wrong, but I think the main problem with these sites is that there is so much misinformation out there

Mark · 08-26-2011, 01:59 PM

One of my older quotes:
"Cardists use magic to make skills look better, magicians use skills to make magic look better."

It's indeed not wrong to do it, definitely not. I'd say it'd be wrong if they would do flourishes and present tricks as magic at the same time, because spectators wouldn't be buying that and would think they just have fast fingers anyways.

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-27-2011, 05:09 AM

I dont think dan and dave made it to where they are just by performing flourishes, so they would also perfrom tricks aswell, and be hired perfromers wouldnt they?

Albert · 08-27-2011, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran Oloughlin

I dont think dan and dave made it to where they are just by performing flourishes, so they would also perfrom tricks aswell, and be hired perfromers wouldnt they?

As to my knowledge, flourishes are what got them this far even from the beginning.

Kieran Oloughlin · 08-27-2011, 09:44 AM

Really? But... how?

la0o9 · 08-27-2011, 12:55 PM

i don't think they ever have been hired magicians, they've always been self-employed as far as i know. How? i think they got skills( to make things flashy), knowledge, friends, and luck( that people came across their products and got interested in them)

Kelan · 08-27-2011, 03:30 PM

---------- Post added at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

One of my older quotes:
"Cardists

Emphasis on the cardists

08-20-2011, 05:27 PM	#21
TheMisdirectingHand David Nguyen Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rosemead, California Posts: 406	This is just stupid. Some of his videos are basically just takes on other moves. Monet was the Paintbrush change, then we have TOP... then the AP... then... the Brick Pass... __________________ "There are three types of people in this world; •People who talk and never do: The Lower Class •People who talk and do at the same time: The Middle Class •People who do before they ever talk: The Upper Class A real man does not need to talk. We are the upper class." -Joseph Lau

08-23-2011, 01:03 AM	#31
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	i like all the tricks they did on the TRICKS DVD, but you're right, you can't use their presentation and still call it magic, i almost always have to tweak the moves a bit or the patter a bit to fit my performance style... but besides the Tricks DVD, the rest of their releases after that are just... i think... flourishes done semi-secretly( not talking about the old magicians who released their old effects on DnD, those tricks are good i think) __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

08-26-2011, 03:56 AM	#34
s13zeTheDay Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 150	Just a comment on Dan and Dave- though I agree that some of the downloads can be misconstrued as "magic" magic, I do appreciate their take on magic tricks. I saw them lecture a few months ago and they showed a few flourished and tricks and said that they adapt tricks to make it more skill/flourishing based and they showed some ideas around that. I don't necessarily think that one way is wrong, but I think the main problem with these sites is that there is so much misinformation out there __________________ What you do in this world is a matter of no consequence. The question is, what can you make people believe you have done. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, A Study In Scarlet

08-27-2011, 12:55 PM	#39
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	i don't think they ever have been hired magicians, they've always been self-employed as far as i know. How? i think they got skills( to make things flashy), knowledge, friends, and luck( that people came across their products and got interested in them) __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

08-20-2011, 05:32 PM	#22
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	Some? Just say all of his playing card involving releases (which are by far the most).

08-21-2011, 05:09 AM	#23
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	They are a bit disappointing aren't they

08-21-2011, 10:33 AM	#24
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	I highly respect dan and dave, and there magic and there flourishes and there awesomness. The downloads are resonable to I think as the tweaks often improve things in my opinion, but I dont buy the tweaked ones much. I have got the ap spread control and I was dissapointed. So yes they could do much better, but I think they are doing fine all the same.

08-21-2011, 10:43 AM	#25
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	D&D went down the drain since they released magic instead of just flourishes. They aren't magicians so it's kind of obvious too.

08-21-2011, 10:53 AM	#26
KGaborMagic K. Gábor Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 229 Donor Score: 110	W-wa-wait! They have amazing tricks as well. For example there is Subway. I can get amazing reactions with it.

08-21-2011, 11:01 AM	#27
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	But tricks aren't necessarily magic. They don't present it in a magical way, so what I meant is that since they released magic (tricks presented in a magical way, in their case from other artists), it went bad.

08-21-2011, 12:39 PM	#28
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	I am pretty sure they are magcians all theough they do a lot of flourishes. The tricks on the trick dvd are some of the besttricks Ive seen. But they do say to crowds that what they are doing is sleight of hand not magic dont they?

08-21-2011, 12:43 PM	#29
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	Indeed, and therefore it's not magic and they aren't magicians. It's just a common misunderstanding. It are still tricks though.

08-22-2011, 10:25 AM	#30
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	Okay I get it now

08-24-2011, 07:27 AM	#32
MysteryHand Card Player with Mystery Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam Posts: 106	Brick Pass DVD is $17.95 ?!! Turnover Pass is just $5.95 and Brick Pass is $9.95

08-24-2011, 09:47 AM	#33
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	DVD is $2.05 = $17.95. No, but indeed, it doesn't make much sense. Basically they say "Don't get the DVD, download it, it will save you two bucks! And it's easier to share with your friends too!". It's just an invitation to file sharing in my opinion.

08-26-2011, 01:59 PM	#35
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	One of my older quotes: "Cardists use magic to make skills look better, magicians use skills to make magic look better." It's indeed not wrong to do it, definitely not. I'd say it'd be wrong if they would do flourishes and present tricks as magic at the same time, because spectators wouldn't be buying that and would think they just have fast fingers anyways.

08-27-2011, 05:09 AM	#36
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	I dont think dan and dave made it to where they are just by performing flourishes, so they would also perfrom tricks aswell, and be hired perfromers wouldnt they?

08-27-2011, 09:44 AM	#38
Kieran Oloughlin Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 414	Really? But... how?