Jonathan Kamm (kammagic) Exposed - Page 2

MeandmagiC · 12-03-2010, 06:07 PM

Why would you want to defend yourself from facts? This is about warning people from behaviours like that.

Mark · 12-03-2010, 06:10 PM

Actually, this thread gave you new magic fans and I'm pretty sure no one unsubscribed to you. I know for a fact that dougall360 and some others subscribed to you just because of this. It's up to people themselves to decide to like you for your magic or to dislike you for your attitude.

And the more people get to read this thread, the less you will have to deal with people getting upset over you removing their comments because they know about it already.

I don't think it's anyone's fault you react like this. I do think people should know about it though. So yes, I approve this message.

kammagic · 12-03-2010, 06:13 PM

I personally would never talk badly about someone behind their back. Let alone publically on the Internet. What kind of a person does that? None of the people I hang around with would do that. What kind of person judges someone without having ever met them? I would never do that.

Mark · 12-03-2010, 06:28 PM

That's the same as saying you can't talk bad about someone like Sarah Palin as long as she doesn't know about it or maybe someone like De'vo which is a huge topic in the flourish community thanks to his attitude. A hundred of people took part in that and thousands took part in posting bad things on Sarah Palin so I guess the answer to your question is: a lot. Is it wrong? Not when it's based on facts, and definitely not when the person in question (in this case you) has been confronted with these personally before anything was posted and has denied it.

I think it's more appropriate in a public forum than actually behind anyone's back. This way you can give feedback and your own side of the story instead of everything coming from one side only.

The main post includes very well grounded facts to warn others. It's not about you but about this kind of behavior like Richard and MeandmagiC say. You are just the authority in this case. Richard could have written about a small YouTuber that would behave like you but then no person could take that serious.

And I really remember some posts of you talking bad about me behind my back. I may as well have a full thread like that from MVD saved on my back-ups in which you certainly took part too. That is the past, this is now but never is not the correct word in this case.

kammagic · 12-03-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

Actually, this thread gave you new magic fans and I'm pretty sure no one unsubscribed to you. I know for a fact that dougall360 and some others subscribed to you just because of this. It's up to people themselves to decide to like you for your magic or to dislike you for your attitude.

And the more people get to read this thread, the less you will have to deal with people getting upset over you removing their comments because they know about it already.

I don't think it's anyone's fault you react like this. I do think people should know about it though. So yes, I approve this message.

Only a handful of people think I have a bad attitude. Those who have met me know that I don't. The people who think I have a bad attitude have all had their comment removed for one reason or another and they didn't like it so now I'm labeled as not able to take criticism and having a bad attitude. that doesn't even make sense.

But I do think it funny that when people criticize my work and then they get all bent out of shape when I criticize their comment.
What? Can't handle criticism?

MeandmagiC · 12-03-2010, 07:16 PM

I know you replied on Marks post, but, still, I want to reply to you here.
You do not critize the critics in a very kindful way.
You refute what they said and doesnt even take it in consideration...(al least, so does it look to me)
Think about that

Richard · 12-03-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Richard,

Regarding my comment "Highest rated" 'Most viewed" on YouTube. It is not a lie. It refers to a video of my performance of a routine. It is the highest rated most viewed video of that routine on YouTube. Surpassing Bill Malones, Daryls and Tommy Wonders. When you look up the routine on Wikipedia it's my video.

When I need advice I ask people who are more skilled, more experienced, and more knowledgeable then I am. This is the way to get ahead in life. Avoiding negativity is another way to get ahead in life and the internet is full of it. Of course not all advice is negative. But all the best advice I have ever gotten in my 40+ years has been from people more knowledgeable, more skilled and more experienced than I am. I'm a very positive person and I listen and learn from people who know what they are talking about. I have even met friends on YouTube who have come and seen me work. Young magicians who I have helped get into the restaurant business. I learn from them and they learn from me. They came to meet me. We shared some magic. We got to know each other and now I value their opinion. They are bright and respectful young men who went about it the right way.

If your first interaction with me is you criticizing my work. You are not going to win any points.

It's all about respect. I find the pro magic world is full of very respectful people. They get it. But the internet forum magic crowd can be scary. I have never seen such mean and disrespectful people.

The poster is about you, yet the statistics are about your video. As long as you do not put the video name with the statistics it is a lie because it reflects to something completely different. According to you, anyone who has a YouTube hit on a well known trick, or who comes up with an original trick and films it could call themselves "Most Viewed". Of course, only one person is actually the most viewed, or perhaps the most viewed magician as that is the displayed profession.

Also, the average video ratings are lower than for instance the ones of Tommy Wonder his video so even for a video of that routine it is not the "Highest Rated". It does have the most ratings though.

It would help to know if you could actually tell us if you realize what we are coming from, or whether you honestly think that we are crazy people with no common sense, talking bad about you for absolutely no proper reason. I would love to believe you are actually a great and very positive guy in real life, but it does not show on the internet. Almost two hands full of people contacted us about you, and obviously not everybody who thinks that about you does actually contact us.

Quote:

Richard,

Can you tell me about yourself? What is your magic background? I put myself out there. It seems only fair that I know who I am talking to.

Jonathan Kamm

I do not see any reason for this because we are not discussing any magic in here. I do have a Master's Degree in Communication Sciences though, which seems to be a lot more relevant in this case.

My magic carreer started in 1999. I have been doing street magic for a little while, and I actually performed quite some years at private gigs but I never took it to a professional level. I do not do all that much with it anymore apart from being product manager at DarkSleightZ and doing research.

kammagic · 12-04-2010, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeandmagiC

I know you replied on Marks post, but, still, I want to reply to you here.
You do not critize the critics in a very kindful way.
You refute what they said and doesnt even take it in consideration...(al least, so does it look to me)
Think about that

Critics are not kind to people. Why should people be kind to them? If you are going to choose to criticize you have to be up for it in return.

As I have already stated I listen to what everyone has to say. It just turns out that according to my educated opinion the majority of them are wrong and they have trouble dealing with that. They love telling people what to do and when people don't listen to them they throw a fit. The people who criticize others would be better off putting that energy into bettering themselves.

---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

The poster is about you, yet the statistics are about your video. As long as you do not put the video name with the statistics it is a lie because it reflects to something completely different. According to you, anyone who has a YouTube hit on a well known trick, or who comes up with an original trick and films it could call themselves "Most Viewed". Of course, only one person is actually the most viewed, or perhaps the most viewed magician as that is the displayed profession.

Also, the average video ratings are lower than for instance the ones of Tommy Wonder his video so even for a video of that routine it is not the "Highest Rated". It does have the most ratings though.

It would help to know if you could actually tell us if you realize what we are coming from, or whether you honestly think that we are crazy people with no common sense, talking bad about you for absolutely no proper reason. I would love to believe you are actually a great and very positive guy in real life, but it does not show on the internet. Almost two hands full of people contacted us about you, and obviously not everybody who thinks that about you does actually contact us.

I do not see any reason for this because we are not discussing any magic in here. I do have a Master's Degree in Communication Sciences though, which seems to be a lot more relevant in this case.

My magic carreer started in 1999. I have been doing street magic for a little while, and I actually performed quite some years at private gigs but I never took it to a professional level. I do not do all that much with it anymore apart from being product manager at DarkSleightZ and doing research.

Richard thanks for the small bio that helps.

As far as the YouTube comment stands. I just checked and my video has 136,799 views and 842 positive ratings. Tommy Wonders has 97,145 views and only 408 positive ratings. My video clearly has more views and is higher rated. These are the facts. The statement is not a lie.

A poster highlights my accomplishments there is no need for it to include statistics and details. But if checked my claims are legit. Posters and ads make those claims all the time. "Chicago's favorite Band!" "New Improved soap!"
If my work didn't reflect these claims then you would have an argument. If my skills were subpar or my performances unprofessional you could say I was misleading people. But my performances are of the caliber of someone who can make those claims. Plus if looked into Yes I can back it up with impressive statistics.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Well it's Friday night I have to get ready for work. 7 hours of magic. Private show then the restaurant. I will check in later.

Richard · 12-04-2010, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Richard thanks for the small bio that helps.

As far as the YouTube comment stands. I just checked and my video has 136,799 views and 842 positive ratings. Tommy Wonders has 97,145 views and only 408 positive ratings. My video clearly has more views and is higher rated. These are the facts. The statement is not a lie.

A poster highlights my accomplishments there is no need for it to include statistics and details. But if checked my claims are legit. Posters and ads make those claims all the time. "Chicago's favorite Band!" "New Improved soap!"
If my work didn't reflect these claims then you would have an argument. If my skills were subpar or my performances unprofessional you could say I was misleading people. But my performances are of the caliber of someone who can make those claims. Plus if looked into Yes I can back it up with impressive statistics

Okay, I know that your math skills are not that good because I read that in the 10 Questions For A Magician interview you did. So let me try to explain it so that you can understand it.

If a movie has eight 5-star ratings and two 4-star ratings, it is rated 4.8 stars. A movie with just seven 5-star ratings, is rated 5.0 stars and thus is rated higher. The only thing is that because the one with 4.8 has more ratings, its rating is more trustful, but it definitely is not the highest rated. When something on the internet has over 250 ratings, you can say that it is trustful anyways. I hope this clears it up.

A better example might be that a video with 2000 ratings of which 1000 are positive and 1000 are negative, is obviously not higher rated than if it are just 999 ratings, all 999 being positive ones. On the old YouTube it would be the difference between 2.5 stars and 5 stars.

Back to your video. It has 843 positive ratings and 32 negative ratings as for now. That is 875 ratings in total which is definitely more than any video of that routine. Now, please keep in mind that it has 32 negative ratings.

Up to Tommy Wonder his video. That one has 409 positive ratings and just 5 negative ones, which makes 414 in total. Now, if you take those 5 negative ones and equal it with the amount of ratings your video has by deviding it with its total of 414 and then multiplying it with your total of 875, you will see that only 8 or 9 of those ratings would have been negative if Tommy his video would have had as many ratings as yours. Since 8 or 9 is obviously less negative than 32, I hope you understand it now. It means that Tommy his video is rated 4.94 out of 5 and yours is rated 4.82 out of 5. Also, I am sure that there are people with videos of the routine which have absolutely no negative ratings and so those are actually rated the highest.

"Chicago's favorite Band!" and "New Improved soap!" are either people their opinions or it are facts. If the band in question won a competition and earned that title they could put that on their poster as a fact. If anyone just said it, the band can put it on their poster or anywhere else as an opinion as long as it is in quotation marks. If the soap really improved or if anyone said so, it is either a fact or an opinion as well. If it is about TV series, it will always be opinions, if it is about hand soap it can be a fact too. Actual statistics are not to mess with. In many countries that is even against the law.

Hope you had a good night.

kammagic · 12-04-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Okay, I know that your math skills are not that good because I read that in the 10 Questions For A Magician interview you did. So let me try to explain it so that you can understand it.

If a movie has eight 5-star ratings and two 4-star ratings, it is rated 4.8 stars. A movie with just seven 5-star ratings, is rated 5.0 stars and thus is higher rated. The only thing is that because the one with 4.8 has more ratings, its rating is more trustful, but it definitely is not the highest rated. When something on the internet has over 250 ratings, you can say that it is trustful anyways. I hope this clears it up.

A better example might be that a video with 2000 ratings of which 1000 are positive and 1000 are negative, is obviously not higher rated than if it are just 999 ratings, all 999 being positive ones. On the old YouTube it would be the difference between 2.5 stars and 5 stars.

Back to your video. It has 843 positive ratings and 32 negative ratings as for now. That is 875 ratings in total which is definitely more than any video of that routine. Now, please keep in mind that it has 32 negative ratings.

Up to Tommy Wonder his video. That one has 409 positive ratings and just 5 negative ones, which makes 414 in total. Now, if you take those 5 negative ones and equal it with the amount of ratings your video has by deviding it with its total of 414 and then multiplying it with your total of 875, you will see that only 8 or 9 of those ratings would have been negative if Tommy his video would have had as many ratings as yours. Since 8 or 9 is obviously less negative than 32, I hope you understand it now. It means that Tommy his video is rated 4.94 out of 5 and yours is rated 4.82 out of 5. Also, I am sure that there are people with videos of the routine which have absolutely no negative ratings and so those are actually rated the highest.

"Chicago's favorite Band!" and "New Improved soap!" are either people their opinions or it are facts. If the band in question won a competition and earned that title they could put that on their poster as a fact. If anyone just said it, the band can put it on their poster or anywhere else as an opinion as long as it is in quotation marks. If the soap really improved or if anyone said so, it is either a fact or an opinion as well. If it is about TV series, it will always be opinions, if it is about hand soap it can be a fact too. Actual statistics are not to mess with. In many countries that is even against the law.

Hope you had a good night.

I asked the brewmaster at work who is a brilliant mathematician.

It depends on how you look at it.
For the people that have watched and voted, I have 842 positive which means .615% of the viewers liked my video.
Tommy has 408 positives which comes out to .419% of the viewers that voted, liked it.

Now, out of all the people that voted for me, 874. 96% liked it.
Tommy comes out to 98.5% of all votes liked his.

Another way to look at it is:
The negative ratings cancel out the positive ones.
MY VIDEO
842 Positive
-32 negative
810 total positive ratings

TOMMY"S VIDEO
408 Positive
- 6 negative
402 total positive ratings

I have approx. twice as many positives as Tommy But I have 29% more views so if you take 29% of my positives away it gives me approx. 597 positives to Tommy's 408.
My video is still higher rated.

So will I change my poster? No.. But Tommy is getting close.

Richard · 12-04-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

I asked the brewmaster at work who is a brilliant mathematician.

It depends on how you look at it.
For the people that have watched and voted, I have 842 positive which means .615% of the viewers liked my video.
Tommy has 408 positives which comes out to .419% of the viewers that voted, liked it.

Now, out of all the people that voted for me, 874. 96% liked it.
Tommy comes out to 98.5% of all votes liked his.

Another way to look at it is:
The negative ratings cancel out the positive ones.
MY VIDEO
842 Positive
-32 negative
810 total positive ratings

TOMMY"S VIDEO
408 Positive
- 6 negative
402 total positive ratings

I have approx. twice as many positives as Tommy But I have 29% more views so if you take 29% of my positives away it gives me approx. 597 positives to Tommy's 408.
My video is still higher rated.

So will I change my poster? No.. But Tommy is getting close.

I hope you came up with that latter way of looking at it by yourself. What if there would be a video of the routine with as many views as yours but with 2700 ratings instead, 900 being negative? Indeed, only two-third of the voters liked it and it is rated 3.3 out of 5 stars, yet according to you it would be the highest rated because 1800 positive ones minus 900 negative ones equals 900 and that is still more positive ones than you have.

And unlike the others, you make a lot of profit out of barely and non-related video tags, including but not limited to "Tutorial explained sleight of hand cheat expose tutorial teach learn how-to instruction card trick world record best".

I really hope that this does not explain why you earlier posted about not minding free magic tutorials, because apparently those bring you a lot of views. As far as YouTube Insight tells, you received thousands of viewers from people looking for tutorial-related tags only.

I am sorry but everything that was said in my main post stays valid and has now been validated.

kammagic · 12-04-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

I hope you came up with that latter way of looking at it by yourself. What if there would be a video of the routine with as many views as yours but with 2700 ratings instead, 900 being negative? Indeed, only two-third of the voters liked it and it is rated 3.3 out of 5 stars, yet according to you it would be the highest rated because 1800 positive ones minus 900 negative ones equals 900 and that is still more positive ones than you have.

And unlike the others, you make a lot of profit out of barely and non-related video tags, including but not limited to "Tutorial explained sleight of hand cheat expose tutorial teach learn how-to instruction card trick world record best".

I really hope that this does not explain why you earlier posted about not minding free magic tutorials, because apparently those bring you a lot of views. As far as YouTube Insight tells, you received thousands of viewers from people looking for tutorial-related tags only.

I am sorry but everything that was said in my main post stays valid and has now been validated.

You can come up with all the hypothetical situations you want and your original post was the most confusing thing I have ever read. I trust my friend of 20 years and I know he knows what he is talking about. You are merely a stranger who has done nothing but say negative things about me and thinks I am ruining the art of magic. So tell me again why I should listen to you?

As far as tags go you are supposed to put as many things in there as possible thats why they are there. Marketing 101. Draw the customer to your product.
Its not like I don't deliver the goods. Im quite proud of the videos I put out. I think they are some of the best magic videos on YouTube.

Tags make your video pop up in the side bar. People still choose to watch the video. They are not forced to. They also choose to vote.

How old are you Rich? What do you do for a living. I won't use this against you. It's just that you are a stranger and if I knew you better I might be more inclined to take what you say seriously. How did you meet Mark. What is a product manager. Why does an amateur magician need one? You seem young I'm gonna guess under 25.

Richard · 12-04-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

You can come up with all the hypothetical situations you want and your original post was the most confusing thing I have ever read. I trust my friend of 20 years and I know he knows what he is talking about. You are merely a stranger who has done nothing but say negative things about me and thinks I am ruining the art of magic. So tell me again why I should listen to you?

As far as tags go you are supposed to put as many things in there as possible thats why they are there. Marketing 101. Draw the customer to your product.
Its not like I don't deliver the goods. Im quite proud of the videos I put out. I think they are some of the best magic videos on YouTube.

Tags make your video pop up in the side bar. People still choose to watch the video. They are not forced to. They also choose to vote.

How old are you Rich? What do you do for a living. I won't use this against you. It's just that you are a stranger and if I knew you better I might be more inclined to take what you say seriously. How did you meet Mark. What is a product manager. Why does an amateur magician need one? You seem young I'm gonna guess under 25.

I am pretty sure that I started this thread by complimenting you for your magic. You are definitely a very talented magician. Unfortunately, every single bad thing I found out about you and put in the main post to warn others, has been verified by you, yourself, and no one else, right here in this thread.

For instance, it is obvious that you want to have the last words in this discussion, but instead, you keep making yourself look worse and give us more reasons to reply and clean up the mess. A good false assumption is that you guessed that I am under 25 while on my profile it clearly says that I was born in 1979. I know that I may be a gifted researcher, but I think that anyone could have easily figured that out. I guess you said enough about the criticism, quoting statistics and the marketing for everyone to make up their mind about it, but it is not that that does you any good.

Then there is the fact that you keep saying that you think you are one of the best magicians and persons, making some of the best videos. There was absolutely no reason to say that, yet you did and thereby you showed that the conclusion is nothing but the truth. Everyone can tell that I was correct, which gives me quite some satisfaction as it shows that I did a good job on the research. And according to your posts, I am actually an authority to you in this situation being a communication expert, which should be enough reason to listen to me.

Tags are part of Search Engine Optimization. You are meant to put words that have something to do with the related article, video, image, web page, etcetera, and not words that have nothing to do with it or are barely related to it. But yes, you have been proven to make false assumptions and this is a great way to share that with the rest of the world.

Currently, I am hired by a Dutch electronics multinational to set up a project regarding online communication strategies, which I will not be managing myself though. The rest of the time I work at DarkSleightZ being a product manager which is someone who, indeed, manages the products. I keep an eye on them, make up prices and strategies for future releases, look for business partners, and decide what is best. As you already know, I also do about half of the online communication like on YouTube.

I originally met Mark years ago when he was doing street magic in Rotterdam, later figuring out a good friend of mine was also a good friend of his and that is how I got in contact with him. That you call him an amateur magician only says something about you, like everything else you have said in here. I will let Mark and others decide what to do with that. Perhaps it is just too immature to give any attention.

kammagic · 12-05-2010, 02:40 AM

You started this thread by insulting me. The title of the thread clearly states that you think that I am someone that is ruining magic. This is laughable to say the least and clearly typical hater nonsense. Haters love to compliment you then insult you as if that makes it ok. Yes you have made many accusations about me in which you claim I am hurting magic. None of which you have proven. Do I filter my comments. Yes! Does this hurt magic in any way. No! What it does do is protects me from the haters like yourself. You claim I need to have the last word when it is clearly you. I felt you were 25 because that is the age you act.
I came here just to poke my head around and see what was going on and I found just what I thought. A tiny amateur blog run by someone who thinks he has the right to insult, belittle and pass judgement on people he has never met.

You can tell a true professional when they never need to put down others or judge, or insult, or knit pick peoples work to make themselves feel adequate. They simply put all their energy into doing good work and they let that speak for itself. I feel I do good work and I believe it shows in my videos and performances and in the way I help others and treat others. What I don't have time for is negative people, hurtful people, dishonest people, disrespectful people. I think this is what I teach young magicians is they don't have to put up with those people. The more successful you get the more haters you get. It just goes with the territory. You haven't made it in this business until you have haters. You haven't made it until people hate your success so much that they need to devote an entire thread to it in a blog.

Thank you, Jonathan Kamm

Mark · 12-05-2010, 09:11 AM

Although it would be a personal opinion to say whether you do or don't ruin the art I do not see any insults or hate in "This is where inappropriate actions of magicians and magic services are exposed to the public so you know what to look out for.". It clearly says it is to warn people so that they know who and what to look out for.

MeandmagiC · 12-05-2010, 12:27 PM

Sounds like WikiLeaks. The people who post the articles post them to make the world a better place, but the people the article talks about hate on it and try to defend themselves while that is absolutely impossible.

kammagic · 12-05-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

Although it would be a personal opinion to say whether you do or don't ruin the art I do not see any insults or hate in "This is where inappropriate actions of magicians and magic services are exposed to the public so you know what to look out for.". It clearly says it is to warn people so that they know who and what to look out for.

All I'm guilty of is filtering my video comments. It's my right and my channel. So I can do whatever I want. YouTube gives you that ability. Everyone should do it. When I watch someone else's video I never judge the video according to the comments it has. I decide wether I like it or not by viewing the video and deciding for myself. This goes true with my videos. What comments appear or don't appear on my videos have no influence on wether the video is good or not. The decision is made by watching the video and deciding for yourself. My filtering of comments does not hurt magic in any way. If it could please explain how.

I've been doing magic long enough that I know whether or not my video is good or not and I know all the mistakes I make in them. I don't post my videos looking for help. I post to educate and entertain. When I need help I go to people who I trust and I know they know what they are talking about.

The problems people brought up on this thread about my videos are ridiculous and are not even issues of concern.

Example:

Someone complained about a 20 second intro I had on my videos. A long intro is not any problem. I have had longer and shorter ones It doesn't matter. I subscribe to over 200 channels I have never not watched a video because it had an extra long intro. Most people know you can simply click past an intro if you don't want to watch it. So when someone made comments about me having a long intro I found it petty and a ridiculous thing to complain about and the comment got deleted.

Example:
Someone also complained that I missed a DL twice. Are you serious? Have you ever performed live? Missing a DL is the least of your worries.
There is a common misconception among beginners that missing or double pumping a DL gives it away. This is not true. To a lay audience when we do a DL they think we aren't doing anything. If I were just turning over a single card and I missed and got 2 cards I would need to double pump and try again to get a single card. This is a completely natural action and looks exactly the same. Missing is a rare occurrence but it does happen to everyone. I have done the math and I have done some 2 to 3 million dl's under the heat of live performance and I have never had an audience suspect anything when I missed a double. You just need to keep your cool and continue. Like I demonstrated in the video.

I have explained why I filter comments and how it doesn't hurt magic. and I have explained that if people contact me with respect I will gladly talk to them about magic, help them in any way and listen to there concerns.

Is there something I'm missing? You guys have not shown any way in which I hurt magic. You have not shown any way that I am a bad influence on young magicians.

I do make my living from magic. I put food on my table with magic. I survive by doing magic. So yes I do sell my tutorials and advertise on my channel. There is nothing wrong or unusual about that. In the states the economy right now is very bad. Restaurants are closing all over and business in the restaurants is very slow. I am so lucky that my tutorials have been selling well and taking up the slack from the money I lose at the restaurant. It is very hard to be a full-time professional entertainer. You must make many sacrifices. But magic is something I love and I hope I can continue doing it forever.

I work hard. I am passionate about what I do. I love putting a smile on someone's face. I love talking about, sharing and teaching magic with those who are interested. You claim my attitude is bad but my philosophy is simple. You respect me I'll respect you.

I would just like to mention we may be having some cultural differences here. We may have different ideas of what is rude or disrespectful. This should be taken into consideration.
I live near Chicago IL. Most of you guys are from the Netherlands correct?

Mark · 12-05-2010, 01:16 PM

Only the last part of the post was really relevant towards the subject. It is and stays a fact that this thread is not about you ruining magic.

I would say you're guilty of unnecessary causing hate rather than filtering comments. The way you filter comments is part of that though. And the more positive comments, the less people will comment negative things. Sometimes it really doesn't make sense. If a video is rated with 22 likes and 19 dislikes and all the shown comments are extremely positive, something must be really wrong.

Frank (MeandmagiC) and I talked about cultural differences on MSN some days ago. It's indeed true that those exist. For instance we are having many more and much more difficult hecklers over here. You can see the impact of TV and online exposure much more than in most other countries and you can see how the way people look at magic tricks changes along with that. Not that it makes it impossible to perform though, but the past few years the audiences have been really changing.

About cultural differences as for having different ideas of what's rude and disrespectful, I really doubt it. Many of the people contacting us live in the US and one of them even in the city nearby you. I have many good friends living in Chicago too and there really isn't much of a cultural difference as for that.

Sure, I'd support you anytime to continue doing magic. There really isn't anything wrong with it nor have we ever said so. There isn't anything wrong with marketing too and as Richard mentioned this explains a lot of the actions that may look disrespectful to others and to the many people contacting us. This thread makes them understand it.

kammagic · 12-05-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

Only the last part of the post was really relevant towards the subject. It is and stays a fact that this thread is not about you ruining magic.

I would say you're guilty of unnecessary causing hate rather than filtering comments. The way you filter comments is part of that though. And the more positive comments, the less people will comment negative things. Sometimes it really doesn't make sense. If a video is rated with 22 likes and 19 dislikes and all the shown comments are extremely positive, something must be really wrong.

Frank (MeandmagiC) and I talked about cultural differences on MSN some days ago. It's indeed true that those exist. For instance we are having many more and much more difficult hecklers over here. You can see the impact of TV and online exposure much more than in most other countries and you can see how the way people look at magic tricks changes along with that. Not that it makes it impossible to perform though, but the past few years the audiences have been really changing.

About cultural differences as for having different ideas of what's rude and disrespectful, I really doubt it. Many of the people contacting us live in the US and one of them even in the city nearby you. I have many good friends living in Chicago too and there really isn't much of a cultural difference as for that.

Sure, I'd support you anytime to continue doing magic. There really isn't anything wrong with it nor have we ever said so.

The way to decide wether or not a video is good is watch the video and decide. I never look at comments or ratings. There are no prizes given out. You don't win anything. Comments and ratings don't mean anything. I'm not understanding your obsession with thinking the ratings and comments hold any value. They can say whatever they want about something the only thing that matters is what you think. Do you like my videos? If you do then subscribe. It's that simple.
Luckily a lot of people like my videos.

Mark · 12-05-2010, 01:52 PM

Is it me or are there a lot of contradictions in what you just said?

About half of the people who watched the video and voted apparently didn't like the video. These votes represent the viewer's opinion. Usually the comments do that as well but these are manipulated because of the filtering.

If you don't look at comments you can't approve or disapprove them either. It would save you a lot of time if you would disable the comments and ratings because you think they are worthless.

I myself see them as a tell if something is good or not. If almost half of the voters disliked my video, I obviously didn't do a good job. If you still think that it's a good video, you will never learn till someone with 40 years of experience walks up to you and tells you about it. But the majority of those magicians isn't even active on the internet.

12-03-2010, 06:07 PM	#21
MeandmagiC Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 44	Why would you want to defend yourself from facts? This is about warning people from behaviours like that.

12-03-2010, 06:10 PM	#22
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	Actually, this thread gave you new magic fans and I'm pretty sure no one unsubscribed to you. I know for a fact that dougall360 and some others subscribed to you just because of this. It's up to people themselves to decide to like you for your magic or to dislike you for your attitude. And the more people get to read this thread, the less you will have to deal with people getting upset over you removing their comments because they know about it already. I don't think it's anyone's fault you react like this. I do think people should know about it though. So yes, I approve this message.

12-03-2010, 06:13 PM	#23
kammagic Banned Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 23	I personally would never talk badly about someone behind their back. Let alone publically on the Internet. What kind of a person does that? None of the people I hang around with would do that. What kind of person judges someone without having ever met them? I would never do that.

12-03-2010, 06:28 PM	#24
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	That's the same as saying you can't talk bad about someone like Sarah Palin as long as she doesn't know about it or maybe someone like De'vo which is a huge topic in the flourish community thanks to his attitude. A hundred of people took part in that and thousands took part in posting bad things on Sarah Palin so I guess the answer to your question is: a lot. Is it wrong? Not when it's based on facts, and definitely not when the person in question (in this case you) has been confronted with these personally before anything was posted and has denied it. I think it's more appropriate in a public forum than actually behind anyone's back. This way you can give feedback and your own side of the story instead of everything coming from one side only. The main post includes very well grounded facts to warn others. It's not about you but about this kind of behavior like Richard and MeandmagiC say. You are just the authority in this case. Richard could have written about a small YouTuber that would behave like you but then no person could take that serious. And I really remember some posts of you talking bad about me behind my back. I may as well have a full thread like that from MVD saved on my back-ups in which you certainly took part too. That is the past, this is now but never is not the correct word in this case.

12-03-2010, 07:16 PM	#26
MeandmagiC Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 44	I know you replied on Marks post, but, still, I want to reply to you here. You do not critize the critics in a very kindful way. You refute what they said and doesnt even take it in consideration...(al least, so does it look to me) Think about that

12-05-2010, 02:40 AM	#34
kammagic Banned Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 23	You started this thread by insulting me. The title of the thread clearly states that you think that I am someone that is ruining magic. This is laughable to say the least and clearly typical hater nonsense. Haters love to compliment you then insult you as if that makes it ok. Yes you have made many accusations about me in which you claim I am hurting magic. None of which you have proven. Do I filter my comments. Yes! Does this hurt magic in any way. No! What it does do is protects me from the haters like yourself. You claim I need to have the last word when it is clearly you. I felt you were 25 because that is the age you act. I came here just to poke my head around and see what was going on and I found just what I thought. A tiny amateur blog run by someone who thinks he has the right to insult, belittle and pass judgement on people he has never met. You can tell a true professional when they never need to put down others or judge, or insult, or knit pick peoples work to make themselves feel adequate. They simply put all their energy into doing good work and they let that speak for itself. I feel I do good work and I believe it shows in my videos and performances and in the way I help others and treat others. What I don't have time for is negative people, hurtful people, dishonest people, disrespectful people. I think this is what I teach young magicians is they don't have to put up with those people. The more successful you get the more haters you get. It just goes with the territory. You haven't made it in this business until you have haters. You haven't made it until people hate your success so much that they need to devote an entire thread to it in a blog. Thank you, Jonathan Kamm

12-05-2010, 09:11 AM	#35
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	Although it would be a personal opinion to say whether you do or don't ruin the art I do not see any insults or hate in "This is where inappropriate actions of magicians and magic services are exposed to the public so you know what to look out for.". It clearly says it is to warn people so that they know who and what to look out for.

12-05-2010, 12:27 PM	#36
MeandmagiC Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 44	Sounds like WikiLeaks. The people who post the articles post them to make the world a better place, but the people the article talks about hate on it and try to defend themselves while that is absolutely impossible.

12-05-2010, 01:16 PM	#38
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	Only the last part of the post was really relevant towards the subject. It is and stays a fact that this thread is not about you ruining magic. I would say you're guilty of unnecessary causing hate rather than filtering comments. The way you filter comments is part of that though. And the more positive comments, the less people will comment negative things. Sometimes it really doesn't make sense. If a video is rated with 22 likes and 19 dislikes and all the shown comments are extremely positive, something must be really wrong. Frank (MeandmagiC) and I talked about cultural differences on MSN some days ago. It's indeed true that those exist. For instance we are having many more and much more difficult hecklers over here. You can see the impact of TV and online exposure much more than in most other countries and you can see how the way people look at magic tricks changes along with that. Not that it makes it impossible to perform though, but the past few years the audiences have been really changing. About cultural differences as for having different ideas of what's rude and disrespectful, I really doubt it. Many of the people contacting us live in the US and one of them even in the city nearby you. I have many good friends living in Chicago too and there really isn't much of a cultural difference as for that. Sure, I'd support you anytime to continue doing magic. There really isn't anything wrong with it nor have we ever said so. There isn't anything wrong with marketing too and as Richard mentioned this explains a lot of the actions that may look disrespectful to others and to the many people contacting us. This thread makes them understand it.

12-05-2010, 01:52 PM	#40
Mark Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 935	Is it me or are there a lot of contradictions in what you just said? About half of the people who watched the video and voted apparently didn't like the video. These votes represent the viewer's opinion. Usually the comments do that as well but these are manipulated because of the filtering. If you don't look at comments you can't approve or disapprove them either. It would save you a lot of time if you would disable the comments and ratings because you think they are worthless. I myself see them as a tell if something is good or not. If almost half of the voters disliked my video, I obviously didn't do a good job. If you still think that it's a good video, you will never learn till someone with 40 years of experience walks up to you and tells you about it. But the majority of those magicians isn't even active on the internet.