Jonathan Kamm (kammagic) Exposed
 

For the past month, our inboxes and messengers have been seriously flooding over on this subject. A lot of you apparently wondered about our opinions on Jonathan Kamm and so we started doing research on this magician. To complete this, Jonathan himself sent us a PM about a week ago out of the blue. What a coincidence! Mark passed this message on to me because apparently he had been having some issues with him in the past and so I was able to make up my mind about Jonathan Kamm, his magic and his personality. I think I succeeded in the fairest way possible. To keep it clean, this article will only go over the facts as for all negativity.


MAGIC
Let's start off with his magic. He is a great magician and especially a brilliant performer. He has a great audience control and presentation which must have to do with the fact that he has been performing the art for over twenty years.

On the sidenote, his video comments would make you believe that he truly is one of the very best sleight of hand artists in the world and that he has mastered every single sleight he does. True, he is good and certainly handles cards well enough to fool laymen, but when comparing his sleight of hand to people who truly mastered the sleights he uses, there still is a big gap. Usually we would not make a deal out of that because he sure is talented and it all works fine in real life, but this seems to be an important thing regarding the subject.


ATTITUDE
Now this is where all trouble starts. Those who love Jonathan, love him for his magic. Those who hate Jonathan, hate him for his attitude.

Discussions and false assumptions
Jonathan always wants to have the final words in a discussion. This makes it impossible to discuss anything with him because he thinks he stands correct on everything he says including false assumptions he tends to make. This is something I noticed in the messages he and I sent back and forth because every reply I needed to correct him one way or the other. As soon as I corrected him, he would choose something different to discuss and to make false assumptions on.

An example:
Criticism
Jonathan does not seem to take criticism very well. This is what I have heard from at least five of you and it also explains why his video comments usually are very positive. Apparently when he does not like a comment, any comment including criticism for that matter, he will ignore and remove it. We do that with comments that include magic exposure but that is morally wrong. Criticism is not quite like that because it allows you to improve and become better at what you do. There is always room for improvement, so by ignoring and removing those comments you block yourself from any improvements.

This does not just count for his magic, but also for his videos. For instance, he recently switched to a 20-second introduction and whoever would tell him that twenty seconds is too long for a two minute video would get a reply along the lines of "I doubt you don't have enough time" or even a full explanation on how professional his introduction is.

Feedback from magicians & quoting statistics
Someone else showed me a conversation in which the following sentences said by Jonathan grabbed my attention:
I can see what he is coming from by saying lay audiences should be the ones to listen to because I personally agree on that, but to ignore things other magicians say does not seem to be the correct thing to do at all. Magicians know how it works so they can also say what exactly is wrong with it, if there indeed is something wrong. Laymen would or should never be able to tell that.

Then again, does he really never care about what magicians think about his magic? Testimonials beg to differ. Also, on his poster he quoted "Most Viewed", "Highest Rated" and "5 stars". Those are statistic-related things which should rely on facts rather than on quotes, and he obviously is not quoting anyone. It are lies instead.

Marketing
In the end, it is all marketing. Unlike DarkSleightZ, Jonathan obviously took the commercial highway. He mentions the tutorials he is selling in every video he makes and he puts it in annotations whenever he does the sleights he teaches in those tutorials as well. I would consider this to be ruining the magic or even being actual exposure, but he probably realizes that most people watching his tutorials are magicians who know these basics already anyways.


CONCLUSION
So to answer the question "What do you think of Jonathan Kamm?" I will have to go with the facts: Jonathan Kamm is a very talented magic performer who makes himself look better than he actually is by removing all criticism and bad comments.


This article is in no way meant to hate on Jonathan Kamm. It is just to expose the truth and should function as a good lesson for every single one of us because there are a lot of people like this. But the most respected ones are those who allow both positive and negative feedback, and who are completely honest to themselves and to the rest of the world.

A special thanks goes out to everyone contacting us about Jonathan, and especially the people who helped making this article possible.

Whoa man! This must be the very best first post someone ever made on any forum on the world wide web!!

Awesome job! And thank you for not having him bother me.^_^

I really enjoyed reading this and I agree with you that Kammagic doesn't take criticism very well. There was a lot of things I didn't know about him before this post. Thank you for posting this!

In reality, there are many people in this world who do not take criticism very well. The only reason Jonathan tries to make himself look far better than he actually does, is because it is all marketing, as Richard has stated. Jonathan himself has daily performances in his restaurant, with complete strangers. This may be the reason that he is bias towards the "Co-worker&Friend" performances. Also, in previous video comments that Jonathan himself has posted, he relies heavily on restaurant tips. If that is what he relies on, his selling of tutorials would still in your opinion, have bad morals in terms of magical philosophy, but what about his own morals in life? People need money to live.

The "friend or co worker" example was just one of the things I had to correct him on. As for this specific subject, Jonathan indeed seemed to be biased. But after over twenty years of experience, I personally think he should have known better and not make false assumptions making himself look like 'the good guy' and us like 'the bad ones'. After performing magic for many years I think he should be able to tell the difference between real and fake audience reactions.

As for the marketing, Jonathan his YouTube public consists of other magicians. Therefore, I do not think it is a bad thing that he sells and promotes those magic tutorials, but then there also is no reason for hiding all the bad and constructive commentary, and certainly not to behave like a know-all in private messages. Truly no person in the world can be correct on everything or should even think they could.

I just hope this thread could function as a good lesson. Youngsters may actually look up to Jonathan and copy his behavior because they think it is part of the business while it is not. Taking criticism and respecting feedback really is though.

There are people that do not like to be wrong, which are the debaters. Jonathan may prefer to try to be right publicly, and privately, mainly because of reputation. Even though he removes criticism and has "attitude," for what reason is he to be placed in the Magic Alert? He expresses his ego to others discreetly by removing comments and real criticism. Jonathan tries to prove himself right, even on false assumptions, because he is a debater, and does not want his points to be rebutted against him. Even after all this, he still IS a magician. Many magicians do in fact express attitude; he is just one of them. Before I end this post, please note that I am NOT attempting to start a pointless argument, but I am merely expressing myself, and my opinions.

**Edit**
How can youngsters attempt to follow his method of gaining fame if they do not know that he even does it? Removing comments, placing advertisements, so what? Youngsters like me for example, would only view his YouTube videos, as he displays his skill there; that is all we look for.

I fully agree with Richard. Whether it'd be Jonathan or anyone else, particularly authorities or self-appointed ones, such threads should be made to make clear what's right and wrong and why.

I personally believe there is a big difference between people who do not like to be wrong, and people who think they are always correct and who would never admit to be wrong because they truly believe that they are right. In the end, I do not know a single person who actually likes to be wrong.

Jonathan could be seen as just an example in this case. You are very correct saying that there are many magicians like that, although attitude is not necessarily something bad. But if it would be considered to be bad like in this case, we would make threads on those people too as soon as anyone asks or tells us about them and we finished doing our research on the persons in question. It just happened to be Jonathan this time.

As for the youngsters who try to get in Jonathan his footsteps, they will actually see what he is up to because a lot of it happens or at least starts off in public. They just will not think of it as anything bad, but they will be able to copy the tone of voice, the attitude towards the public, the mass advertising to amateurish tutorials they might make because they cannot keep up with Jonathan's skills, and in the end they are most likely to not end up anywhere even though they would be very potential magicians at first.

Of course the more potential magicians are like you, just watching for the skills instead of copycatting. Unfortunately, many kids do not know any better. But I would prefer having those youngsters behave properly rather than them being extremely ignorant and unintentionally ruining all of their chances.

You are correct; there is a world of differences between being right, and being ignorant. Though he is on the Magic Alert list, Jonathan will continue to post, and advertise, mainly because that is how he works. It is up to the individual to make their own choice of being original, or following the method of someone else to gain fame. There is one thing that is true about magicians through the world: there are the ones that do it because it is their passion, and do not wish to gain fame, or reputation, and those who are very flashy, and use mass advertising with misconceiving titles. In the end, the only way to stop the spread is to speak our minds, and hope our words are heard.

great post. great i could help

in his latest video he slips a lift many times so i ask him why and he said: The blue deck was brand new the red deck was well used. The differences in the cards were a factor. Concentrating on proper technique is why I finally hit it the third time.

is that superduperlame or what

Hello this is Jonathan Kamm. If any of you would like to ask me any question feel free.

To address how I filter my comments on YouTube I use the following steps.


1. I listen to everyone (I don't ignore anyone)
2. I judge the advice first by itself. Is it good or bad advice? Using my 25 years experience usually this is quite clear.
3. If I'm on the fence or don't understand the advice I start looking at criteria.
4. Where did they get the info? Why do they think this is good advice? What do they know about the topic? I will ask a battery of questions if I don't understand the advice.
5. If the advice is something they really know about they will have no
problem answering my questions. If it's something they read or heard somewhere. They will have trouble answering my questions.
6. It may only take one answer to a question for me to realize this guy knows what he is talking about or one answer to know he doesn't.
7. I will ask questions until I have enough information to make an intelligent decision regarding the advice.

Most criticism is hater nonsense and does not make it past step 2.

Other things I take into consideration:

1. If they are professional and honestly want to give me helpful criticism they will contact me privately. But if their motivation is to hurt me or publicly humiliate me then they will post hurtful criticism in my public comments. These I do not tolerate and the comments are deleted.

2. I also look at the tone in which the comment is made.
" Your double lift is terrible!" - DELETED
" Why do you use that DL?" - APPROVED

3. Any comments with exposure in them are - DELETED

4. Any comments with boasting in them are - DELETED
"I figured that out"
"I saw what you did"
"first post"
"I know how that works."

5. Posting anonymously. If you are not man enough to stand up and take responsibility for your comments - DELETED
--------------------------------------

Also there is a rule all of us should live by. There are only 2 situations in which criticism is appropriate.

1. If someone asks you for advice
2. If you are an authority figure to that person. Doctor, parent, teacher, coach, supervisor, older brother ...etc

any other time criticism comes off as insulting and is very disrespectful. Even if you didn't mean it to be insulting it doesn't matter. You don't decide wether it is insulting the person receiving the comment does and you have to respect their feelings.
Your safest bet is to follow the 2 rules above and only give advice when asked or if you are an authority figure to that person. If you don't follow those 2 rules then you are the guy who goes around telling people what to do all the time. We all love that guy don't we.

I hope this answered some questions for you.

Thank You, Jonathan Kamm

Hey Jonathan,

Thank you for joining and for posting.

However, the post seems to be both valid and invalid to me so please allow me to analyze it using a comment Vincent (M4sterV) recentely sent to us with your reply to it. It has to do with the video which Vincent linked to in his post in this thread.

Also, I do not know if this was manipulated by Vincent in any way but I will trust him that it was not, and that it was copied and pasted directly from the YouTube PMs.

The main steps
1. Granted, because you sent him a PM and so you did not ignore him;

2. Although there is not much advice in the comment because he said it was something personal, the post seems to be good and valid to me. I would have approved this if it was posted to one of our videos;

3. By your reaction I guess that the comment was understood;

4. It is not clear where Vincent got the information from although that does not seem to matter in this case;

5. Talking to Vincent quite regularly, I am pretty sure that he does have good sources for everything he says so I guess this would not have been any problem;

6. He knows what he is talking about;

7. Other than "Anything else I can help you with?", no question was asked.


Other things you take into consideration
1. I do not see any intention to humiliate you in public;

2. The tone of voice seems to be fine;

3. There is no exposure and I do not know whether it was intentional or not, but Vincent's use of "lift" rather than fully naming the sleight seems to be a big part of that. I must point out that at the previous step you said that "Why would you use that DL?" would be approved. "DL" seems to be extremely close to exposure to me though. But I do not know if this point (3) would still have it removed or not;

4. No boasting. Instead, compliments were given.
I personally tend to approve the boasting kind of comments because in the end others will reply that do not care about it. In some cases it are actual laymen posting such comments which then turns it into something very valuable. Of course, this does not count for the "first post" kind of comments;

5. No anonymous posting.


The two situations in which you find criticism appropriate
1. Vincent asked for advice;

2. I doubt that he is an authority to you.


Conclusion
Although you said that you removed the comment due to magic exposure, I do not see that. This is a random message from the many messages we received, certainly not all of them coming from Vincent and not all of them being related to magic. In some cases it is rather obvious why you removed the comments, yet in other cases there is very valid feedback given which according to your post should actually have been approved.

I stand my conclusion, especially because you started marketing your release by saying that the tutorial is a steal at $12.50. Nothing wrong with that but flat out saying it does seem to be a little cheap to me, as well as that you apparently had to concentrate on the lift before it worked. Honestly, that does not sound like a good one to me.

Then in reply to the latest part of your post, I have to agree that you may look at things differently and that that is not up to us to judge. But it seems to upset quite a lot of people. If that many people do not get why their comments were not approved, I wonder if it is really their fault. In the most extreme example it would be the same as starting a war because you believe that that would make the world a better place and yourself a more respected person.

Hey Jon,
I got so many things to ask now.:thinking:

The first three I thought of:

1) Why wouldn't you have others decide if a comment is valuable or not? If it's a bad comment or bad advice your regulars will be telling that to the person who left it or they will not give it thumbs up.

That way you get a much more realistic representation of the video ratings in case that is enabled and you make it yourself a lot easier because you only have to filter the comments including exposure.:)

We live in the era of 'Web 2.0' but you use it as 'Web 1.0' in which interactivity was almost non-existing. Back then it was normal to not be able to give opinions in public but now this leads to a legit damage of the image of businesses and persons in question.

2) I completely miss spectators' opinions in your huge list of steps and situations. If a layman gives criticism, it doesn't seem like you would approve that.

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between live performances and video performances. Effects that work great in real life are much more obvious in video performances to both magicians and laymen.

3) What exactly did you disagree on about Vincent's 'Crazy Man's Handcuffs' feedback?

Thanks.^_^

Well I thought it was insulting saying that my tutorial was not worth $12.50. I consider his mention of lifts exposure and he is also insulting my DL saying it isn't very good because I didnt hit it the first time. There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then because of this or that. I missed it twice then hit it the 3rd time, I don't see any problem with that. The audience didn't either. I also answered all his questions so I still see no problem here.

I have had nobody complain about any of my tutorials who have bought them. If any did feel they were inferior I would gladly refund their money.

Basically what it comes down to is I post my videos for free, they are gifts and nobody has any right to complain about them. If you do you are being petty and disrespectful.

---------- Post added at 04:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 AM ----------

1. Easy answer: My channel is mine I make the decisions, I choose how it looks, I choose what comments are appropriate. If you don't like the decisions I make simply don't subscribe. Do you let strangers clean your house, choose schools for your children or make other decisions. I would hope not.

2. What purpose would a layman have for criticizing my work on my public comments other than insulting my work? If they had a legitimate idea or way to improve they would contact me privately. Most criticism is hater nonsense and not worth approving.

3. I disagree with his suggestion. I would not do it the way he suggested. I feel you should never go back and forth. The 2 bands should touch in the center and not go near the ends. Its a possible solution. You could of gotten them off at the ends.

---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 AM ----------

Imagine this. If your first contact with a person is criticism no matter what it is you are saying it is going to be insulting. You are a stranger. It would be like going up to somebody you don't know and telling them "Dude you should not wear that shirt." How do you think that person would feel? Would they thank you? No they would be pretty upset. Not necessarily about the comment but your lack of respect in thinking it was alright to make that comment.

Its all about respect. You show me respect and I will listen to what you have to say.

It even takes your best friend a long time before they feel they have earned the right to criticize you. If you are a stranger it is never cool.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------

Its been brought to my attention that you gentleman may not be aware of the following.

I do magic for a living? I have no other job. I have been with the same restaurant for 13 years that is very rare in this business. While working there I also did 4 years with another brewery and 5 years with two other major restaurant chains. I also do private shows for some of the biggest companies in the area. I just recently started a regular gig at the Hollywood Casino and I plan on lecturing next year.


Richard,

Regarding my comment "Highest rated" 'Most viewed" on YouTube. It is not a lie. It refers to a video of my performance of a routine. It is the highest rated most viewed video of that routine on YouTube. Surpassing Bill Malones, Daryls and Tommy Wonders. When you look up the routine on Wikipedia it's my video.

When I need advice I ask people who are more skilled, more experienced, and more knowledgeable then I am. This is the way to get ahead in life. Avoiding negativity is another way to get ahead in life and the internet is full of it. Of course not all advice is negative. But all the best advice I have ever gotten in my 40+ years has been from people more knowledgeable, more skilled and more experienced than I am. I'm a very positive person and I listen and learn from people who know what they are talking about. I have even met friends on YouTube who have come and seen me work. Young magicians who I have helped get into the restaurant business. I learn from them and they learn from me. They came to meet me. We shared some magic. We got to know each other and now I value their opinion. They are bright and respectful young men who went about it the right way.

If your first interaction with me is you criticizing my work. You are not going to win any points.

It's all about respect. I find the pro magic world is full of very respectful people. They get it. But the internet forum magic crowd can be scary. I have never seen such mean and disrespectful people.

I think it is because I am an outsider, but it does not look insulting to me at all. It would have been different if he would have said that it was not worth the $12.50 instead of asking about it. A response like "There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then" would have been a lot more appropriate in that case, rather than just marketing it saying that it is a steal. It is the difference between informercials and quality marketing. I really hope you do not like the first one the most.

Also, I still do not see how the word 'lifts' is considered to be exposure. Anyone watching the video could see you actually slipped when trying to grab and lift the card. If Vincent intentionally wrote it like that, he definitely thought about not exposing it. Intentionally or not, he did not reveal anything.

From all the messages I read, I can tell that Vincent has only been trying to help and shared his views and ideas about the effects with you. In response, you reacted as if he did not know what he was talking about. Some people who care a lot about the art did notice that the replay in your 'One More Time' video gives away the effect to laymen and let you know about that. Some others have been trying to help as for video-technical aspects like the extremely long intro which now is much better.

Of course, there are haters who just like to hate on others, but I see that you also treat people who do not hate on you at all as actual haters. I do not know why this is or if you got so many more haters than helpers that you assume all people who mention such things automatically are hating on you, but I personally see complaining and trying to help as two completely different things.

When no one is allowed to 'complain', that would be the moment to get rid of the comment sections completely. This would force those who complain to PM you about what they dislike about you and your magic. Even better yet, is that it forces everyone to think about your videos whatever they want rather than being pushed in a positive direction while it is not the best video in the world and ending up being disappointed or upset to figure out you do not approve their feedback. This is exactly why many people contacted us about you.

That is a very valid point but it seems to be the difference between real life and the internet. On the internet, everyone is allowed to say whatever they want. Of course that means haters are too, and it is not that I like that, but it is good to know that you and I can say whatever we want as well. I am sure you have been using that freedom yourself too.

And often it are strangers who can judge something the best. If you already know someone, you are biased and this will have a lot of influence on the comment and rating you would give this person. For instance, if you would do a very bad trick your regulars know that you are capable of doing better and they will not dislike it that fast. On the other hand, when someone just finds out about you and watches the bad trick first, they can and might tell that it is not all that good.

But at least it is clear what you are coming from now. Thank you.

Richard,

Can you tell me about yourself? What is your magic background? I put myself out there. It seems only fair that I know who I am talking to.

Jonathan Kamm

Thanks for the answers! I don't necessarily agree with them but thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. Much appreciated.:)

Instead of being all critic over it, I just want to remind you that you probably were the very first person who ever criticized me back when we were strangers to each other. You were in a very powerful position and I was just a beginner. So are you disliking on your own actions too or do you really think you got more rights than anyone else to say whatever you want because you are so much more experienced?

Because of the part you wrote that was automatically added to your big post later I'll have to mention the very first rule of this forum board. Please keep this in mind:

Mark,

Do you think it's respectful of this forum to talk negatively about me behind my back? Devoting an entire thread to bashing me and never inviting me to defend myself. I think this forum has shown me very little respect. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't think the way you treat others is respectful either but as Richard said in the main post this thread was definitely not meant to bash or to hate on you.

So you think this thread shows respect for me and doesn't show me in a negative light and it was fair of them to do this without my knowledge?

Why would you want to defend yourself from facts? This is about warning people from behaviours like that.

Actually, this thread gave you new magic fans and I'm pretty sure no one unsubscribed to you. I know for a fact that dougall360 and some others subscribed to you just because of this. It's up to people themselves to decide to like you for your magic or to dislike you for your attitude.

And the more people get to read this thread, the less you will have to deal with people getting upset over you removing their comments because they know about it already.^_^

I don't think it's anyone's fault you react like this. I do think people should know about it though. So yes, I approve this message.:)

I personally would never talk badly about someone behind their back. Let alone publically on the Internet. What kind of a person does that? None of the people I hang around with would do that. What kind of person judges someone without having ever met them? I would never do that.

That's the same as saying you can't talk bad about someone like Sarah Palin as long as she doesn't know about it or maybe someone like De'vo which is a huge topic in the flourish community thanks to his attitude. A hundred of people took part in that and thousands took part in posting bad things on Sarah Palin so I guess the answer to your question is: a lot. Is it wrong? Not when it's based on facts, and definitely not when the person in question (in this case you) has been confronted with these personally before anything was posted and has denied it.

I think it's more appropriate in a public forum than actually behind anyone's back. This way you can give feedback and your own side of the story instead of everything coming from one side only.

The main post includes very well grounded facts to warn others. It's not about you but about this kind of behavior like Richard and MeandmagiC say. You are just the authority in this case. Richard could have written about a small YouTuber that would behave like you but then no person could take that serious.

And I really remember some posts of you talking bad about me behind my back. I may as well have a full thread like that from MVD saved on my back-ups in which you certainly took part too. That is the past, this is now but never is not the correct word in this case.

Only a handful of people think I have a bad attitude. Those who have met me know that I don't. The people who think I have a bad attitude have all had their comment removed for one reason or another and they didn't like it so now I'm labeled as not able to take criticism and having a bad attitude. that doesn't even make sense.

But I do think it funny that when people criticize my work and then they get all bent out of shape when I criticize their comment.
What? Can't handle criticism?

I know you replied on Marks post, but, still, I want to reply to you here.
You do not critize the critics in a very kindful way.
You refute what they said and doesnt even take it in consideration...(al least, so does it look to me)
Think about that :)

The poster is about you, yet the statistics are about your video. As long as you do not put the video name with the statistics it is a lie because it reflects to something completely different. According to you, anyone who has a YouTube hit on a well known trick, or who comes up with an original trick and films it could call themselves "Most Viewed". Of course, only one person is actually the most viewed, or perhaps the most viewed magician as that is the displayed profession.

Also, the average video ratings are lower than for instance the ones of Tommy Wonder his video so even for a video of that routine it is not the "Highest Rated". It does have the most ratings though.

It would help to know if you could actually tell us if you realize what we are coming from, or whether you honestly think that we are crazy people with no common sense, talking bad about you for absolutely no proper reason. I would love to believe you are actually a great and very positive guy in real life, but it does not show on the internet. Almost two hands full of people contacted us about you, and obviously not everybody who thinks that about you does actually contact us.

I do not see any reason for this because we are not discussing any magic in here. I do have a Master's Degree in Communication Sciences though, which seems to be a lot more relevant in this case.

My magic carreer started in 1999. I have been doing street magic for a little while, and I actually performed quite some years at private gigs but I never took it to a professional level. I do not do all that much with it anymore apart from being product manager at DarkSleightZ and doing research.

Critics are not kind to people. Why should people be kind to them? If you are going to choose to criticize you have to be up for it in return.

As I have already stated I listen to what everyone has to say. It just turns out that according to my educated opinion the majority of them are wrong and they have trouble dealing with that. They love telling people what to do and when people don't listen to them they throw a fit. The people who criticize others would be better off putting that energy into bettering themselves.

---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

Richard thanks for the small bio that helps.

As far as the YouTube comment stands. I just checked and my video has 136,799 views and 842 positive ratings. Tommy Wonders has 97,145 views and only 408 positive ratings. My video clearly has more views and is higher rated. These are the facts. The statement is not a lie.

A poster highlights my accomplishments there is no need for it to include statistics and details. But if checked my claims are legit. Posters and ads make those claims all the time. "Chicago's favorite Band!" "New Improved soap!"
If my work didn't reflect these claims then you would have an argument. If my skills were subpar or my performances unprofessional you could say I was misleading people. But my performances are of the caliber of someone who can make those claims. Plus if looked into Yes I can back it up with impressive statistics.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Well it's Friday night I have to get ready for work. 7 hours of magic. Private show then the restaurant. I will check in later.

Okay, I know that your math skills are not that good because I read that in the 10 Questions For A Magician interview you did. So let me try to explain it so that you can understand it.

If a movie has eight 5-star ratings and two 4-star ratings, it is rated 4.8 stars. A movie with just seven 5-star ratings, is rated 5.0 stars and thus is rated higher. The only thing is that because the one with 4.8 has more ratings, its rating is more trustful, but it definitely is not the highest rated. When something on the internet has over 250 ratings, you can say that it is trustful anyways. I hope this clears it up.

A better example might be that a video with 2000 ratings of which 1000 are positive and 1000 are negative, is obviously not higher rated than if it are just 999 ratings, all 999 being positive ones. On the old YouTube it would be the difference between 2.5 stars and 5 stars.

Back to your video. It has 843 positive ratings and 32 negative ratings as for now. That is 875 ratings in total which is definitely more than any video of that routine. Now, please keep in mind that it has 32 negative ratings.

Up to Tommy Wonder his video. That one has 409 positive ratings and just 5 negative ones, which makes 414 in total. Now, if you take those 5 negative ones and equal it with the amount of ratings your video has by deviding it with its total of 414 and then multiplying it with your total of 875, you will see that only 8 or 9 of those ratings would have been negative if Tommy his video would have had as many ratings as yours. Since 8 or 9 is obviously less negative than 32, I hope you understand it now. It means that Tommy his video is rated 4.94 out of 5 and yours is rated 4.82 out of 5. Also, I am sure that there are people with videos of the routine which have absolutely no negative ratings and so those are actually rated the highest.

"Chicago's favorite Band!" and "New Improved soap!" are either people their opinions or it are facts. If the band in question won a competition and earned that title they could put that on their poster as a fact. If anyone just said it, the band can put it on their poster or anywhere else as an opinion as long as it is in quotation marks. If the soap really improved or if anyone said so, it is either a fact or an opinion as well. If it is about TV series, it will always be opinions, if it is about hand soap it can be a fact too. Actual statistics are not to mess with. In many countries that is even against the law.

Hope you had a good night.

I asked the brewmaster at work who is a brilliant mathematician.

It depends on how you look at it.
For the people that have watched and voted, I have 842 positive which means .615% of the viewers liked my video.
Tommy has 408 positives which comes out to .419% of the viewers that voted, liked it.

Now, out of all the people that voted for me, 874. 96% liked it.
Tommy comes out to 98.5% of all votes liked his.

Another way to look at it is:
The negative ratings cancel out the positive ones.
MY VIDEO
842 Positive
-32 negative
810 total positive ratings

TOMMY"S VIDEO
408 Positive
- 6 negative
402 total positive ratings

I have approx. twice as many positives as Tommy But I have 29% more views so if you take 29% of my positives away it gives me approx. 597 positives to Tommy's 408.
My video is still higher rated.

So will I change my poster? No.. But Tommy is getting close.

I hope you came up with that latter way of looking at it by yourself. What if there would be a video of the routine with as many views as yours but with 2700 ratings instead, 900 being negative? Indeed, only two-third of the voters liked it and it is rated 3.3 out of 5 stars, yet according to you it would be the highest rated because 1800 positive ones minus 900 negative ones equals 900 and that is still more positive ones than you have.

And unlike the others, you make a lot of profit out of barely and non-related video tags, including but not limited to "Tutorial explained sleight of hand cheat expose tutorial teach learn how-to instruction card trick world record best".

I really hope that this does not explain why you earlier posted about not minding free magic tutorials, because apparently those bring you a lot of views. As far as YouTube Insight tells, you received thousands of viewers from people looking for tutorial-related tags only.

I am sorry but everything that was said in my main post stays valid and has now been validated.

You can come up with all the hypothetical situations you want and your original post was the most confusing thing I have ever read. I trust my friend of 20 years and I know he knows what he is talking about. You are merely a stranger who has done nothing but say negative things about me and thinks I am ruining the art of magic. So tell me again why I should listen to you?

As far as tags go you are supposed to put as many things in there as possible thats why they are there. Marketing 101. Draw the customer to your product.
Its not like I don't deliver the goods. Im quite proud of the videos I put out. I think they are some of the best magic videos on YouTube.

Tags make your video pop up in the side bar. People still choose to watch the video. They are not forced to. They also choose to vote.

How old are you Rich? What do you do for a living. I won't use this against you. It's just that you are a stranger and if I knew you better I might be more inclined to take what you say seriously. How did you meet Mark. What is a product manager. Why does an amateur magician need one? You seem young I'm gonna guess under 25.

I am pretty sure that I started this thread by complimenting you for your magic. You are definitely a very talented magician. Unfortunately, every single bad thing I found out about you and put in the main post to warn others, has been verified by you, yourself, and no one else, right here in this thread.

For instance, it is obvious that you want to have the last words in this discussion, but instead, you keep making yourself look worse and give us more reasons to reply and clean up the mess. A good false assumption is that you guessed that I am under 25 while on my profile it clearly says that I was born in 1979. I know that I may be a gifted researcher, but I think that anyone could have easily figured that out. I guess you said enough about the criticism, quoting statistics and the marketing for everyone to make up their mind about it, but it is not that that does you any good.

Then there is the fact that you keep saying that you think you are one of the best magicians and persons, making some of the best videos. There was absolutely no reason to say that, yet you did and thereby you showed that the conclusion is nothing but the truth. Everyone can tell that I was correct, which gives me quite some satisfaction as it shows that I did a good job on the research. And according to your posts, I am actually an authority to you in this situation being a communication expert, which should be enough reason to listen to me.

Tags are part of Search Engine Optimization. You are meant to put words that have something to do with the related article, video, image, web page, etcetera, and not words that have nothing to do with it or are barely related to it. But yes, you have been proven to make false assumptions and this is a great way to share that with the rest of the world.

Currently, I am hired by a Dutch electronics multinational to set up a project regarding online communication strategies, which I will not be managing myself though. The rest of the time I work at DarkSleightZ being a product manager which is someone who, indeed, manages the products. I keep an eye on them, make up prices and strategies for future releases, look for business partners, and decide what is best. As you already know, I also do about half of the online communication like on YouTube.

I originally met Mark years ago when he was doing street magic in Rotterdam, later figuring out a good friend of mine was also a good friend of his and that is how I got in contact with him. That you call him an amateur magician only says something about you, like everything else you have said in here. I will let Mark and others decide what to do with that. Perhaps it is just too immature to give any attention.

You started this thread by insulting me. The title of the thread clearly states that you think that I am someone that is ruining magic. This is laughable to say the least and clearly typical hater nonsense. Haters love to compliment you then insult you as if that makes it ok. Yes you have made many accusations about me in which you claim I am hurting magic. None of which you have proven. Do I filter my comments. Yes! Does this hurt magic in any way. No! What it does do is protects me from the haters like yourself. You claim I need to have the last word when it is clearly you. I felt you were 25 because that is the age you act.
I came here just to poke my head around and see what was going on and I found just what I thought. A tiny amateur blog run by someone who thinks he has the right to insult, belittle and pass judgement on people he has never met.

You can tell a true professional when they never need to put down others or judge, or insult, or knit pick peoples work to make themselves feel adequate. They simply put all their energy into doing good work and they let that speak for itself. I feel I do good work and I believe it shows in my videos and performances and in the way I help others and treat others. What I don't have time for is negative people, hurtful people, dishonest people, disrespectful people. I think this is what I teach young magicians is they don't have to put up with those people. The more successful you get the more haters you get. It just goes with the territory. You haven't made it in this business until you have haters. You haven't made it until people hate your success so much that they need to devote an entire thread to it in a blog.

Thank you, Jonathan Kamm

Although it would be a personal opinion to say whether you do or don't ruin the art I do not see any insults or hate in "This is where inappropriate actions of magicians and magic services are exposed to the public so you know what to look out for.". It clearly says it is to warn people so that they know who and what to look out for.

Sounds like WikiLeaks. The people who post the articles post them to make the world a better place, but the people the article talks about hate on it and try to defend themselves while that is absolutely impossible.

All I'm guilty of is filtering my video comments. It's my right and my channel. So I can do whatever I want. YouTube gives you that ability. Everyone should do it. When I watch someone else's video I never judge the video according to the comments it has. I decide wether I like it or not by viewing the video and deciding for myself. This goes true with my videos. What comments appear or don't appear on my videos have no influence on wether the video is good or not. The decision is made by watching the video and deciding for yourself. My filtering of comments does not hurt magic in any way. If it could please explain how.

I've been doing magic long enough that I know whether or not my video is good or not and I know all the mistakes I make in them. I don't post my videos looking for help. I post to educate and entertain. When I need help I go to people who I trust and I know they know what they are talking about.

The problems people brought up on this thread about my videos are ridiculous and are not even issues of concern.

Example:

Someone complained about a 20 second intro I had on my videos. A long intro is not any problem. I have had longer and shorter ones It doesn't matter. I subscribe to over 200 channels I have never not watched a video because it had an extra long intro. Most people know you can simply click past an intro if you don't want to watch it. So when someone made comments about me having a long intro I found it petty and a ridiculous thing to complain about and the comment got deleted.

Example:
Someone also complained that I missed a DL twice. Are you serious? Have you ever performed live? Missing a DL is the least of your worries.
There is a common misconception among beginners that missing or double pumping a DL gives it away. This is not true. To a lay audience when we do a DL they think we aren't doing anything. If I were just turning over a single card and I missed and got 2 cards I would need to double pump and try again to get a single card. This is a completely natural action and looks exactly the same. Missing is a rare occurrence but it does happen to everyone. I have done the math and I have done some 2 to 3 million dl's under the heat of live performance and I have never had an audience suspect anything when I missed a double. You just need to keep your cool and continue. Like I demonstrated in the video.

I have explained why I filter comments and how it doesn't hurt magic. and I have explained that if people contact me with respect I will gladly talk to them about magic, help them in any way and listen to there concerns.

Is there something I'm missing? You guys have not shown any way in which I hurt magic. You have not shown any way that I am a bad influence on young magicians.

I do make my living from magic. I put food on my table with magic. I survive by doing magic. So yes I do sell my tutorials and advertise on my channel. There is nothing wrong or unusual about that. In the states the economy right now is very bad. Restaurants are closing all over and business in the restaurants is very slow. I am so lucky that my tutorials have been selling well and taking up the slack from the money I lose at the restaurant. It is very hard to be a full-time professional entertainer. You must make many sacrifices. But magic is something I love and I hope I can continue doing it forever.

I work hard. I am passionate about what I do. I love putting a smile on someone's face. I love talking about, sharing and teaching magic with those who are interested. You claim my attitude is bad but my philosophy is simple. You respect me I'll respect you.

I would just like to mention we may be having some cultural differences here. We may have different ideas of what is rude or disrespectful. This should be taken into consideration.
I live near Chicago IL. Most of you guys are from the Netherlands correct?

Only the last part of the post was really relevant towards the subject. It is and stays a fact that this thread is not about you ruining magic.

I would say you're guilty of unnecessary causing hate rather than filtering comments. The way you filter comments is part of that though. And the more positive comments, the less people will comment negative things. Sometimes it really doesn't make sense. If a video is rated with 22 likes and 19 dislikes and all the shown comments are extremely positive, something must be really wrong.:thinking:

Frank (MeandmagiC) and I talked about cultural differences on MSN some days ago. It's indeed true that those exist. For instance we are having many more and much more difficult hecklers over here. You can see the impact of TV and online exposure much more than in most other countries and you can see how the way people look at magic tricks changes along with that. Not that it makes it impossible to perform though, but the past few years the audiences have been really changing.

About cultural differences as for having different ideas of what's rude and disrespectful, I really doubt it. Many of the people contacting us live in the US and one of them even in the city nearby you. I have many good friends living in Chicago too and there really isn't much of a cultural difference as for that.

Sure, I'd support you anytime to continue doing magic. There really isn't anything wrong with it nor have we ever said so. There isn't anything wrong with marketing too and as Richard mentioned this explains a lot of the actions that may look disrespectful to others and to the many people contacting us. This thread makes them understand it.:)

The way to decide wether or not a video is good is watch the video and decide. I never look at comments or ratings. There are no prizes given out. You don't win anything. Comments and ratings don't mean anything. I'm not understanding your obsession with thinking the ratings and comments hold any value. They can say whatever they want about something the only thing that matters is what you think. Do you like my videos? If you do then subscribe. It's that simple.
Luckily a lot of people like my videos.

Is it me or are there a lot of contradictions in what you just said?:thinking:

About half of the people who watched the video and voted apparently didn't like the video. These votes represent the viewer's opinion. Usually the comments do that as well but these are manipulated because of the filtering.

If you don't look at comments you can't approve or disapprove them either. It would save you a lot of time if you would disable the comments and ratings because you think they are worthless.

I myself see them as a tell if something is good or not. If almost half of the voters disliked my video, I obviously didn't do a good job. If you still think that it's a good video, you will never learn till someone with 40 years of experience walks up to you and tells you about it. But the majority of those magicians isn't even active on the internet.