Hahaha... you guys made a forum against Jonathan Kamm? Thats too funny... Are any of you as experienced as him? Everything he has said makes sense, and it seem everyone here can't deal with his responses. He performs for effects to share with the public. The comments posted about his effects are meaningless. Why does everyone here put this much time into trying to prove someone wrong... hahahaah.... this seriously cracks me up. He puts videos up of live performances and I havn't seen one from the guy who made this thread. What does that say about his effects and how practical they are? Something to think about... actually its a no brainer... you guys are all pathetic... but thanks for entertaining me :)

To each his own Joshy :)

By the way, it's actually just a thread, not really an entire forum against him because that would just be stupid :hm:

Josh, I think you missed the entire point of this thread. It's not about Jonathan Kamm's effects, nor his experience, nor anything that even has the slightest bit to do with magic yet that's where the obvious misunderstanding is. Don't worry, every single one of us really likes Jonathan as a magician and performer. :)

I love this comment!!!!!!!!!

yep, that seems right to me

I understood what you meant the first time you said this. When I'm on Youtube I just watch the vids, and sometimes comment. The ratings and comments have nothing to do with my desision to watch the vid. I strongly believe that not everyone who watches a vid thumbs it up or down - I don't always. So yeah, ratings would only hold true meaning if it was compulsory to vote

I actually have to disagree with that, as said in the reply to the original post. If you have a video in which you performed everything all fine.. both as for the performance and the technique.. and you get 30 likes and 1 dislike on the video, and then you post another video and you get 11 likes and 20 dislikes on it, it's obvious that the viewers don't like the video as much as the first one.

You can be sure that many more people left a negative comment too.. although in this particular case those got (and get) disapproved.

That's true for all the viewers that rated - what about the people that watched, and enjoyed it but didn't thumb up? See what I mean how if voting was compulsory, the results would be fixed with no dispute.

But it's not just those who rate the video, who dislike it. Usually the ratings are very well represented by the comments (which half of the time aren't given by the same people) and by the rest of the viewers for that matter. It's just like in any democracy, you don't need every single person's vote to see whether something is more liked than something else.

Plus, in this particular case the lower rated video indeed wasn't quite as good as the higher rated one, from a performance and technical point and for either laymen and magicians.

Hey Mark, I think this is a case of a mutual misunderstanding because I was speaking about all videos in general, and now it's become clear to me that you are talking about one or two very specific videos. Is that true? If so, it may help the discussion if I knew which vids you were talking about.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

All I was saying was I generally watch A video first, then sometimes I read peoples comments if A particular video has caught my interest. I have never clicked on a video, read the comments first, and then decided to watch it or not. That method isn't natural to me.

Okay, I'm majorly confused now. :(

I was merely replying to the last sentence of what you said in post #126. I fully agree on the rest, which is similar to the second part of what you just posted (post #130).

However, I was indeed comparing two videos of the same artist (Jonathan Kamm) with each other, but I'm pretty sure the same thing goes for all videos in general, which is why I am lost right now. :hm:

I'm lost too. Personally, ratings mean nothing to me. I mean if it were compulsory to vote I still wouldn't check how many likes the video had before watching the vid. I'd just watch it and decide for myself.
Maybe, I meant better regulated as opposed to true.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

Though I'm not suggesting this should happen for real. It's too black and white.

I think the confusion is caused because you're mixing things up a little. It's not about the people who watch the video and rate it but about what the video author does with those ratings.

If a video author thinks he did an amazing job while many if not most people who usually give his videos thumbs up, give this particular video thumbs down instead, there must have been something wrong and the video author better starts questioning the video. That, Jonathan said he would never do because he got so much experience and knows that whatever he does is great.. which is what I strongly disagree with.

I don't know if it's possible to manipulate the ammount of likes and dislikes your video has, is that what you mean about "what the authour does with those ratings"?, but I'm aware that comments can be removed. But yeah of course you have a point in your last paragraph - that very much sounds like the attitude of someone who doesn't like to be criticized.

"What the video author does with those ratings" means whether the video author will look at those ratings and whether he will use them to improve.
I'm glad you agree. ^_^

I have a very similar problem that just happened to me. A guy came on one of my videos and commented on it saying its nothing like the original which is true, and also that my change sucked. I'm completely fine with that and I know its true, because I think the same myself. Its just the way he said it came across as highly disrespectful. I have no intention of deleting comments or anything because I'm not like that. BUT, I did leave a fairly lengthy 3 comment response speaking my mind, which I think is okay because he left his honest opinion so i left mine as well. Maybe I went a little too far with it, and keep in mind I never would have responded had it been a normal comment or even a negative one as long as its constructive, i mean thats what leaving comments is there for.

Basically, I'm asking if my response was justified or If I went too far and my actions were unwarranted. I'd like your guys' thoughts on the matter, and thanks alot for taking the time. =)

Here is the link to the video where the comments were posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y4C1BBZGTE

Can't agree more with what you did. Maybe it was a bit too much as it could've fit in a single comment, but it's all correct and fine. ^_^

Okay thats good to know, thanks a lot! I appreciate it ;)

I just clicked your link and read his comment and your response. I'd be pretty pissed too with that lack of respect. Thinking about it though, I really don't know how I'd reply other than try to defend myself like you did. And it's really not worth deleting comments

Oh yeah of course not, I have a thing about Freedom of Speech. Everyone deserves to have their opinion heard even if you don't agree with it. Besides, another thing of mine, I really wasn't angry, i was upset though but.... After playing WoW for almost 4 years now off and on, and having to deal with incredibly rude and immature people in the game, its come to a point where I enjoy arguments, I thrive off of them, and I don't lose arguments. Well, mostly! lol :)

Back on topic, I actually found something and I just.. felt the need to share this. About a month ago, Jonathan actually commented to a video of someone performing his trick. Now, let me try to explain the situation:

In the original video of the trick, the deck is shuffled and the jokers are going find.. let's say.. the two jacks.. visually. One joker gets put in the middle of the deck, the other one is on top, the deck is turned over and bamn.. the cards have changed.

Now, in this other person's performance, the jacks (deuces) were separately lost in the deck first before the jokers (kings) were put in and onto the deck and the change happened. The person in question did a pretty good and amazingly consistent job. And the comment that followed is just.. blah..

Really? And you think that you're the nicest guy in the world? That definitely was the most constructive and nicest criticism I have ever seen. Major props to the performer actually making this trick his own and doing whatever suited him. Jonathan, if you read this, just.. wow.. left me speechless.. (till I started writing this, of course).

Hey Mark, you should post a link to the video in question.

Since you know who we're talking about, finding it for yourself is a real piece of cake. ;)

Sorry, about bumping the thread guys, but Jonathan has seem to strike again =0

I commented on his "Middle School Magic" video saying something along the lines of "Great performance but I did feel the card to wallet was a little rushed. But excellent performance". (I really did like it, I just felt the need to comment about how he rushed the effect) This, to me, in no way, shape, or form violates his "rules" of allowing you to comment on his videos. Which are right here:

(1. I listen to everyone (I don't ignore anyone)
2. I judge the advice first by itself. Is it good or bad advice? Using my 25 years experience usually this is quite clear.
3. If I'm on the fence or don't understand the advice I start looking at criteria.
4. Where did they get the info? Why do they think this is good advice? What do they know about the topic? I will ask a battery of questions if I don't understand the advice.
5. If the advice is something they really know about they will have no
problem answering my questions. If it's something they read or heard somewhere. They will have trouble answering my questions.
6. It may only take one answer to a question for me to realize this guy knows what he is talking about or one answer to know he doesn't.
7. I will ask questions until I have enough information to make an intelligent decision regarding the advice.)

I even discussed this with Mark on MSN, Mark first mentioning it to me and me realizing that is was true (at least, in our opinions of course. Your guys' might be different). The only shred of reasoning Jonathan might have is me (and Mark) "Violating" "rule" number 2. Apparently, his 25 years of experience thought this was "bad advice". What do you guys think of this?

EDIT: Also, what is not impromptu about the following trick? Jonathan told me it is not impromptu.


Sorry about the audio being out of sync- it was made with my webcam :P

this guy sounds absolutley ridic. whats his channel? i wanna see some of his videos.

It's kammagic.

This occurrence is exactly the same as when Andy Field had claimed, when he saw my ACID transpo to Jay, saying this, which Jay told me later:
Oh' REALLY!? Darwin Ortiz taught you moves I've used that was most likely never released or published until I used it?

He friggin' called it a waste of time trick just because he has no friggin' creativity developed in all his 'experience' of magic. This phenomenon seems to be very common: You get more experience in magic, you get stupendously cocky just because you have more people acknowledging your talents through time. This is one of the main reasons why I was placed 5th in the contest. I had to perform for Jay one of the secret moves I used in ACID Transpo and then Jay practically took that performance of one move and used it as my contest entry, as you can hear him say about my entry something like "It's not a trick, but more of a move".

I'm getting really irritated by people their stupidity in claiming something as something else when they lack the intellect to figure it out.

@kelan: he did now did he? i wonder why mister kamm with his 25 years of experience actually THOUGHT that you need a set up or anything other than your one deck to get this effect( srly... no offense but you messed up a bit on the handling, too much fidgeting, and thus gave away the secret a little).

Actually, he said it wasn't impromptu because "impromptu means anywhere anytime". The possible lack of a table makes it "not impromptu", that is, according to Jonathan. I think he forgot that there at least is a floor everywhere we go. Oh wait, not if we go swim. Hmmm.. seems like he doesn't know what impromptu magic is. Really experienced, no? :thinking:

yeah, a lot of "experienced" magicians i think lose vision of what magic is really about. they focus more on fooling and degrading other magicians and putting themselves forward. As long as i can make my spectators happy, i'm happy. If you give man the earth in one hand and the moon in the other, he would simply ask for the sun as well.

nice saying

It could be adjusted to an in the hands version. I'll prolly post a video of this later :P

I wonder who is Jonathan Kamm ? Anyone please give me a detail about his man !!!
P/S: Is Kam? I saw him has lots of great vids

If you read my latest post on this thread I do tell who it is. It is Kammagic on YouTube.

I will tell the Admin to add Jonathan's YouTube name and channel to the thread again.

I actually never took time to say Jonathan did not keep his promise of deleting the video trashing this board as soon as this thread wouldn't show up in search engines anymore. He has been asked about this multiple times but did not take any further actions. Go figure. For that, we put his full name back in this thread.

I actually thought of a way to sum up the situation for those who are fairly new and don't feel like reading eight long pages. Essentially, Richard (a certified communication expert) criticized Jonathan for lacking online communication skills. Jonathan then joined to say that because he has been a magician for a very long time, longer than any of us, he knows how to communicate online in a proper manner, basically saying "I'm a clown so I know how to give someone a surgery. You're a doctor? Well, I've been a clown for decades so I know much better how to do it". Obviously, we disagreed.

Anyhow, the thing I really wanted to announce and make this post for is to let you know that we have planned to make a video on Jonathan's magic: whether it's good or not and why it is and isn't. This is of public interest (although due to the magic secrets involved it won't be available for free) because Jonathan sells his takes on tricks and makes quite a lot of magicians and beginners believe his takes on magic are proper ones.

It won't be all negative, don't worry, because as you know we do applaud him as a magic performer as said many times in this thread. It'd be an in-depth review on what he does though.

He can take absolutely no criticism. I commented about a little problem with his DL not being consistent. I did it in the nicest way humanly possible, and even complimented his performance, but he still deleted my comment.
@Albert I commented on the results video about that. I couldn't believe 'Rebecca', a combination of two unoriginal sleights, and that confusing mash of sleights and plots 'Kinveresed', ranked higher than you.